Need Advice

[Iwant2Bfree]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this info, forgive me if it's not. I really like these boards, you people seem to be very caring and honest. I have been reading for a while but haven't posted yet. I really need some help with my situation. I'm just going to be totally honest here and tell it like it is. I have been married now for almost 13 years. Pretty much very unhappy. I used to try to get my hubby to go to counseling but it was like trying to drag a two year old to a place he didn't want to go. We both come from very dysfunctional families. He is and always has been a very angry person. To be honest, I don't know if I've ever truly been in love with him. All I knw for sure is that I tried and tried to get him to get help w/me and he didn't want it. He thought we could do it on our own. Now, I no longer want any part of this relationship. I know what true love is now and it"s definitely not what I have with him. It's a long story. All I can say is he's okay with our relationship as long as we have sex. If he gets what he wants(which is only minutes long) then the rest of his free time is spent watching TV in bed. Nothing else matters to him. Now I'm kinda going my own way because I got tired of asking him to spend time with me and our kids. That's all I wanted was a partner. SOmebody to have fun with and raise our children and enjoy life with. Our kids have never seen us really happy. I've stayed in the relationship because I never had my Mom and Dad together. It's all anger and fighting. I have major walls that in the past if I let them down, I was always hurt so I no longer let them down. I don't know what to do because now he seems to want to work on the relationship but only because I no longer give him what he wants. Do I keep trying for my kids? or do I move on? The answer seems clear as I type this but to be honest, my kids have it good compared to what I had growing up but I want them to have so much more. I want them to know what love is. I want them to know how their partner should treat them. I want them to be happy and I don't want them to think this is what love is. But what's it gonna do to them when they are torn between their parents? I am very close to my babies and I can't imagine being away from them. At the same time though I want to be with somebody that loves us and isn't miserable all the time. Am I being selfish? ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Amylynn920]

It sounds to me as if you know what your solution is. You've tried counseling, he's not willing. You can't solely make a relationship work for two people. And it's not fair to you or your children.

Now you need to gather the strength you need to believe in you and move on.

[thurisas]

It sounds like you've already made your mind up to leave your lout of a husband, now you're just trying to screw up the courage to follow through with it. Children are NOT a good reason to stay in a marriage. I think if my parents had stayed with each other and I had to witness the fighting and whatnot on a frequent basis that I wouldn't be as well adjusted to the world as I am today. Stop using your kids as an excuse, get your finances together so you can head out on your own with your kids, get to see a lawyer, and get out of a relationship that is obviously not a good relationship.

Thurisas.

[hollybw]

Great replies from everyone!

I just have to say, I am an adult child of divorce, and I firmly believe that staying for the chldren is no way to go. My mother did the same thing. Then one day after I went off to college, I get a phone call from her telling me the news that they had decided to separate.

For a long time, I felt it was my fault that she was so unhappy because she stayed with my father for me. Especially after finding out everything she had put up with over 25 years.

I know better now because we have talked about it extensively.

She is now in a great, loving relationship, and I have never seen her happier. Mine and her realtionship is also better than ever. We are best friends.

I, too, have very little realtionship with my father now. However, I can also see that I never really did. The realtionship I had with him was only because my mother made it so.

You know what you have to do. Life is too short to stay miserable for all of it!

[Tyger]

I am also a child of divorce, and I think that I am stronger for it. My parents weren't happy, and yes, it hurt when they divorced, but I spent more quality time with both parents AFTER they got divorced than when they were married!

Your husband just wants things to be the way they were, so he's willing. A little too late. If I'm reading his personality right, he may go for a few times (to counselling) then think "we're all fixed", stop going, and then the cycle begins again.

Don't use your kids as an excuse. Your kids will want both of you to be happy, and, in the long run, not only will you be happy, your kids will be too.

It sounds as if you've made up your mind already, but need affirmation that leaving is the right thing to do. Darlin', it is.

Good luck!

[Iwant2Bfree]

I am also a child of divorce, and I think that I am stronger for it. My parents weren't happy, and yes, it hurt when they divorced, but I spent more quality time with both parents AFTER they got divorced than when they were married!

Your husband just wants things to be the way they were, so he's willing. A little too late. If I'm reading his personality right, he may go for a few times (to counselling) then think "we're all fixed", stop going, and then the cycle begins again.

Don't use your kids as an excuse. Your kids will want both of you to be happy, and, in the long run, not only will you be happy, your kids will be too.

It sounds as if you've made up your mind already, but need affirmation that leaving is the right thing to do. Darlin', it is.

Good luck!

Yes, you are right he is a little too late. I've been here and done this so many times it's not even funny. He did got to a few couseling sessions and you're right he thought "we're all fixed" and the cycle began again and again and again. Thank you for your affirmation. I feel more right about this decision than ever.

[Iwant2Bfree]

This is the confusing part of your post, but may also give some answer to the problem.

"... now he seems to want to work on the relationship but only because I no longer give him what he wants..."

Part of being DYsfunctional has to do with the fact that we do things that play into what is wrong by our partners. This is the kind of thing seen in families of Alcohol abusers, and drug addicts. You are not unique.

I think you should be going to a couselor, now, whether he goes or not. Frankly, by stopping " Giving him what he wants", you have finally gotten his attention, whereas you didn't before. That is a HUGE step forward. But, the same damn process will occur again, with another relationship, unless you find out what you are doing wrong with this one, and work on that.

Yes, your kids need to know what a loving couple is , and see them as their parents. We teach so much more to young people by our behavior than by our words. But, here, your kids have you, and their father, with all the baggage you both brought to the marriage from your own family histories. The Children ALSO need to know how adults go about fixing things in relationships, rather than just going from one hope to another.

If your husband is abusive, you can live separately from him. You can get restraining orders that remove him from the home, and order him into counseling to deal with his anger control. ( This is the law in most states today.) The lesson taught to your children is that violence within the family home is not acceptable by either of you, and certainly not towards them. Counseling will help you deal with your own issues, and help you find out how and where you steered this relationship in the wrong direction.

Yes, You.

Both of you have your hands on the steering wheel of your marriage, and it takes two people to make it go wrong. Sometimes it may be the result of being too passive about decisions, letting him make decisions, without saying, " Hey, lets talk about this." Sometimes, it involves not consulting him on major decisions.

Marital troubles, like most sexual problems always begin with communication failures. We are a society full of " Cool Hand Luke's ", and our failure to communicate is so often at the root of our problems. I think you have to deal with your own issues before you can truly make any decision so momentous that it affects your children, too.

I am far more cautious about recommending people terminate a marriage when there are young children involved. It takes both parents to raise children, and if both are alive, its worth while smacking the adults up side the head to get their attention and have them do a better job of being a couple, and being parents to their kids, rather than tearing the family apart. That is so hard on kids, even when they are old enough to realize how bad the marriage is for their parents. ( Mid to late teens). I can assure you that your children are very aware that the two of you are not happy together, that you are not a loving couple, and probably are not the best of parents, because of it. Kids tend to compare notes with other kids, and are great little observers when they visit the homes of other kids.

For example: My mother was a very stern disciplinarian, and she had no hestitation in yelling at other kids on the block for any misbehavior. When I was about 12, we kids were on our bikes, with all the other kids on the block, and some kids from the next block over. Some kids from the other side of town came over on their bikes, and we had a soft ball game with them. After the game finished, they wanted to know what we kids did around here to have fun that was both dangerous, and misbehaving( as in vandalism). They wanted us to go into the cemetery with them and push over tall tombstones, for instance. We would have none of it! One of the kids from my block told these heros about some drain pipes we had crawled through under Interstate 294, which led into larger and larger drain tiles, with the largest being located deep under the highway and being 30 feet in diameter. In effect, our own little set of " Caves " right there in flat, old Illinois. Well, they immediately wanted us to take them. It was 3:30 or so, and by the time we got flashlights, and some of us would change into old clothes, it would be well after 4:30 PM. I declined to go with them, and told them so, indicating that we were not allowed to go off the block within a hour of dinner time. The kids from the other side of town started calling me "chicken, baby, etc." Then, all of a sudden, the guys from my block stopped them, and said,

" Don't give the twins a hard time. You don't know their mother ".

It was the first time I understood how much kids paid attention to even the shortcomings of my own home, which was a lot short on hugs, but long on discipline, and work. The guys rode off to the drain pipes, got into them, climbed up latters to manhole covers, opened them to find they were right smack dab in the middle of the median between the North and South lanes of the highway, where they were spotted by someone who reported them to the Illinois State Police. The ISP were looking for escaped convicts, unknown to us, and within minutes there were dozens of squad cars swarming all over those drain pipes. Most of the kids from across town were arrested and taken home to their parents. Several of the local guys managed to hide in the weeds in the cemetery and evade capture, but were late getting home, of course. My brother and I missed out on the " fun ". But, when Mom heard about what happened, the next day from one of the neighbors, we got a stern lecture anyway!

By attending a counselor on your own, your own kids will see your attempts to improve things for the two of you parents, and for them. That is a terrific lesson to give to them. If their father finally stops being such a jerk, and begins attending counseling, that will be even better.

I don't know if you can save this marriage. I can certainly understand why you are exhausted. He is most not likely to want to talk to any third person about his inadequacies as a lover, but that can change with the right counselor. For the children's sakes, give counseling a serious try, and let your work with the counselor help you decide if you and your kids are better off leaving your husband, than staying with him.

You will need to get your financial affairs in order. Its very rare for families to have a single bread winner these days, who can afford to provide for Two households on one income. Take the time to improve your employment outside the home, or to get employment skills. I always tell mothers that they are at least middle management material, and not entry level employee prospects, so they should be applying for management work, not minimum wage jobs. Some women are terrific upper management material, and only need to get on the job training about a business, to be a success at those levels. Life experience is worth at least a Bachelor's degree to employers, and most mothers have a ton of life experience.

Planning a termination of a marriage involves as much work and preparation as beginning one, and often more. When you have children, parenting decisions have to be made in the best interest of the children. Most mothers want custody of their children. I am not a big fan of such knee jerk decisions on such an important issue. Sometimes the kids are actually better off staying with Dad while mom gets clear of him, and gets her life started again. But that is not a decision that should be made talking to your lawyer, but rather as the result of talking long and hard to marriage counselors, where the counselor talks to both parents about their desire to have the kids, and be the primary care giver to them.

I have many men involved in divorce who all of a sudden want to be custodians of their kids, and get involved with their care, when they have left all that to their wives since the kids were born. Sometimes, the wife pushes them away from any involvement in raising and caring for the child, marking out her " turf ".Often the only reason the guys want the kids is not to have child support deducted from their paychecks, or to spite their wives! JERKS!

There is a huge prejudice against men as custodians of small children in this country, but its my professional experience that when mother is not available ( death, crippling injuries that leave her institutionalized, etc. ) that men, even some of the most immature men I had known, can and do often step up, grow up, and become much better caring parents because they have to. And once they learn the joys of caring for their kids, they grow to like the new job, no matter what kind of kidding they get at work from other guys who want him to join him at the bar on payday. I had not seen this kind of thing, personally, growing up, because we had very few divorced families in town. So, I was pleasantly surprised as a lawyer, to have more than a dozen men who either were raising children after their wives death, or her total absense and lack of desire to be responsible for raising little children. Like single women with kids, they have help from family and friends caring for the kids so they can work, but they are the primary care givers, and they do a much better job at it than my own father would ever have been capable of doing.

I am not suggesting its in the best interest of your children to give their custody to their father. Please! Don't get me wrong. What I am telling you is that any decision about their care needs to involve discussions with him on how he is going to care for them on visitation, at the very least. If he has no care-giving skills now, he is going to need to get them, if a separation or divorce becomes the final answer to your marital problems.

If a marriage can be saved, and fixed, I always believe that is the best result for the couple and their children. If anything the kids learn what a bad marriage is, and how at least one couple went about fixing it. That is a lesson they will refer to all the rest of their lives, and will help make up their own characters as adults. It is worth trying to fix this marriage for that reason, if no other. You were in love with this man once, or you would not have married him.

I know, you now think you never loved him. You now think you know what true love is. I suspect there are facts that you have not shared with us, on that matter. But, I bet, that if we interviewed the people who knew the two of you when you were dating, and maybe were witnesses to or bridesmaids and Best man at your wedding, I would get an entirely different picture of how the two of you acted towards each other. You might call those old girlfriends and ask them how the two of you seemed to them, looking back. It very easy, when there is so much bickering, and unhappiness between partners to forget all about who you both were and what your dreams were when you were " engaged ".

I wish you all the best.

Howard

Thankyou for you're reply. I have read alot of your advice given to others on these boards and I like your honesty. I know I am partly to blame for this mess but I also know I have been more than willing to do what ever it takes to make things work. As it turned out it was left up to me to fix it (EVERYTHING) by myself while he laid in bed and watched TV and I did everything else. I finally decided to go to school and do something to try and make things better for us. Since I've been able to get out and get away from the situation now I see really how dysfunctional it is. Honestly I've tried most of your suggestions. I've been to counseling myself and am going to be starting again. I try to be as honest because I really do feel this is the right decision but I want people to know everything so they can tell me if this is my fault. I would almost love it if they would cause then I could fix it. I've tried though and I have learned that the only way things go smoothe is if I give him what he wants and keep my mouth shut. I honestly never gave my needs a thought it is all about my kids. I've always been good at not really needing anything BUT........ you're right there is more to the story. I did pretty much tell on myself in my last post but not in a way that EVERYONE would know because I am ashamed of myself. It's against everything I believe in but it feels so good to be loved and appreciated for who I am and not what I can do for you if that makes sense. It also feels good to be able to love somebody and trust somebody and totally let my walls down. I don't remember the last time in my life that I was able to be so free in a relationship. I'm not making this decision for this other person though. I don't want to bring a bunch of different men in my childrens lives and I will not. I have told this person that I would not want to start a long term relationship like this. I don't know. I just know from day one honestly my marriage has been bad. My husband told me the day we got married that he wanted a divorce. I married him because we had a child. I thought I was in love but I don't think I knew what love was. I am an ACOA so I know I have alot of work to do on myself. I'm just tired of always having to fix everything while my husband lays in bed and thinks everything is okay. He's already been to anger management and we separated for two years and not even days after we moved back in together he was back to the same old person. It's always been all my fault according to him and before me it was all his ex's fault. Everything that ever happens is somebody else's fault. I can't fix this and I can't ignore it any more either. Am I being too bull headed? I never used to believe in divorce but now I feel like I see what I've been missing and I feel without too much doubt that this is what I should do.

[Tyger]

I don't think you're being bullheaded now at all. I guess you could say you were bullheaded in making your marriage survive, which I don't mean in a bad way. However, divorce is should be something done as a last resort, and honey, you're there.

Marriage isn't something to go into lightly, which it sounds like you didn't. But for those out there: my hubby, and many others have found out that getting married just because you get pregnant/get a girl pregnant rarely works out. Not only the stresses of having a baby, but then a marriage that seems to be "forced" usually creates feelings of resentment on one party usually.

You shouldn't go into a marriage thinking "well, if I don't like it, I can always divorce their ass", cuz if you do (which I'm not at all saying you DID), then the marriage shouldn't take place. If your DH said he wanted a divorce the day after he married you, that really was a hint of things to come. At that point it probably could've been annulled, and nobody would really be hurt. It sounds like he just didn't care, had "buyer's remorse" and therefore, didn't think that an effort really was necassary.

Kids KNOW if you're unhappy. Even if they don't recognize WHY, they know when their parents are unhappy, and, in turn, will be miserable themselves, in one form or another. If you want to do the best thing for not only yourself, but for your kids, you will find a way to make yourself happy.

Finding another to help make you feel better about yourself is always nice. However, Howard is right. Mixing up with someone before you involve someone else, really isn't a good idea, no matter what your age. In your example, you got married really young, and probably still maturing/growing up. You weren't even ready to get into a real mature relationship at that point because you weren't done becoming your OWN person yet!

After you get your divorce, take a long break from any romantic relationship. Learn how you want to be, what kind of person you wish to become, and what kind of single mother you can be for your kids. All of this may sound lonely, but once you find out WHO you ARE, and WHERE you want to be, only then can you honestly find happiness with someone else. For, it's not the partner that makes you happy, YOU make YOURSELF happy once you learn HOW to do it for yourself! Then start DATING. I don't mean delve into a relationship. There is NOTHING wrong with going out on a date, having fun, go to dinner/movie, whatever, then going home.

When I got divorced, I took almost 2 years to just have fun! I had dates, boyfriends, and casual flings, all while living with 2 roommates, who only met 2 of the men I dated. I had a blast! I did my own thing, and had fun doing it. I changed, for the better. Meeting my now-hubby was a total shock. Apparently I was ready for a relationship, because we've been married now for 5 1/2 yrs! And I swore I'd never marry again!!!

Best wishes!

[Iwant2Bfree]

I respect you for all the efforts you have put into the relationship. It does sound that you have reached the point where " Out " seems to be the only viable option. You will need to give yourself time to heal from the divorce, and that usually takes at least 2 years after all the courtroom fighting is over. With kids in the picture, it often lasts longer, simply because you are forced to deal with him as parents involving decisions involving the care, education and discipline of your children. Good or bad, the kids only have one father, and they need to spend time with him, even when they don't want to. ( Never let the kids pull that game on you. Whether they see their father is not a decision that is there's to make, until they turn 18. Listen to them when they complain about how he treats them, so they are not being neglected or abused when they visit him, but beyond that, they have the right as kids to be miserable in their father's company, just so they will appreciate how good they have it living with you! See how that works? And, they need to find ways to live with their father, with his rules, because if something were to happen to you, he would be the one to raise them, and care for them until they are aduls. The judge will tell him the kids are not there to see him so he can make them spies for him about what you are doing with your life. And the Judge can make sure that he is treating his children correctly, or lose his right to visits with them. Its hard enough to keep both parents on the same page when parents live together; when they are separated, it takes hercuean efforts by both parents to keep each other informed, about what the kids are doing, the rules they live by, and restrictions or punishments they are under, so that both parents can support each other in these matters. Otherwise, the kids will lose all respect for both parents, and run wild, playing one parent off the other. Most kids try to do that with their parents, even when mom and dad live under the same roof!

{KId: Mom, can I do_____? ( fill in the blank!) Mom: Go ask your father.

Kid: Dad, can I do this? Dad: Go ask your mother. Kid:Mom said its okay with her if its okay with you! Dad: well, okay. If its okay with your mother, its okay with me.

Kid: Mom, Dad said its okay with him if its okay with you. Can I do----?

Mom: Well, if your Dad says its okay, then I guess its all right with me.

Kid wins. }

That dialogue is repeated daily in thousands of homes , whether the couples are married, or divorced. The only way parents get control back, is to never listen to the kids when they say, Mom says its okay if you are okay with it. Always talk to mom, and vice versa.

Be wary of romances at this stage of your life. Your emotions are all screwed up. Any kindness shown to you by anyone else is going to send you soaring, because it feels so good. You, like everyone has a right to feel happiness. But you need a couple of years to grieve over the ending of this marriage, and you need that length of time to learn to do it on your own, to establish a new relationship with your children, get their heads turned on correctly again, and know what you really contributed to making this marriage go South. Then and only then are you ready to give your heart to someone else. Oh, its okay to date, but getting serious about some one too soon leads to dragging a lot of problems you have in this marriage into the next marriage. Give that new man in your life a break.

I was divorced from my first wife a year when I met my second wife. Unfortunately, my first wife continued to live in my house, because she would not bring herself to move. I begged, yelled, threatened, cajoled her to move, but she always had one bad reason or another. She was not mentally well. I did not want to cause a problem by taking the matter back to court and getting a court order throwing her out. ( Mr. Nice Guy.) I had other lawyers offer to represent me for free and get her out of the house, but I just could not do it. When I met my second wife, I was not looking for any kind of relationship. I was not even attacted to her the first time we met. It was she who asked me out on our first date, not me. I don't think I would have ever invited her out, considering how I was feeling about women in general at that time in my life. I certainly had no interest in getting into a new marriage! We dated two more years, before getting married, and even then it was tentative. The marriage didn't last because she decided she had made a mistake by getting married. I was ready to remarry when I did, and I had decided my own contribution to the break up of that first marriage. I still think I did some things wrong, that contributed to the breakup, and they are things I will not allow to happen again, with anyone, should I remarry. I did not have children with either wife, so those issues were not around to complicate the ending of the marriages. Unfortunately, the day my wife decided to move out was also the day she came back to my house and killed herself. I did have to deal with that, and its a good lesson that no one gets out of a marriage scott clean. In hindsight, I was still grieving over the death of my first wife when I married my second. I should have held off for another year at least, because it took me that long to get over seeing her as I found her, every day, just as close and as clear as it was when I found her body. I know I was dealing with sorrow, and some depression over that during those first months of my second marriage, and that was not really fair to my second wife. .

I still wish you all the best. If we can help with any advice as you go through this process, let us all know. There are lots of people on this forum who have gone through divorces. I am a long experienced divorce lawyer, so I have presided over many many divorces, and tried to help my client maintain some degree of civility and sanity through the court process. MY goal as a lawyer is to lend as much dignity to the process as the parties allow me to give, out of respect for both parties. the only judgment that matters about a marriage is those of the two parties. All of the rest of can tend to our own family problems.

Take Care.

Howard

Thankyou ALL for your replies I feel alot better now having people to talk to about this that have been in my position. I have a question for you Howard. My husband has threatened to take my kids even though I know he doesn't want them nor could he handle them. He already using them as pawns. He later said that he would never do that but I didn't think he'd ever even threaten that so I need to be prepared. My kids would be miserable living with their dad. I told him it would be over my dead body. Anyway, what do you know about this? Being a full time student, I do not have any money for a lawyer. Do you know how I can keep this from happening if in fact he tries? I live in Washington State.

[Iwant2Bfree]

I respect you for all the efforts you have put into the relationship. It does sound that you have reached the point where " Out " seems to be the only viable option. You will need to give yourself time to heal from the divorce, and that usually takes at least 2 years after all the courtroom fighting is over. With kids in the picture, it often lasts longer, simply because you are forced to deal with him as parents involving decisions involving the care, education and discipline of your children. Good or bad, the kids only have one father, and they need to spend time with him, even when they don't want to. ( Never let the kids pull that game on you. Whether they see their father is not a decision that is there's to make, until they turn 18. Listen to them when they complain about how he treats them, so they are not being neglected or abused when they visit him, but beyond that, they have the right as kids to be miserable in their father's company, just so they will appreciate how good they have it living with you! See how that works? And, they need to find ways to live with their father, with his rules, because if something were to happen to you, he would be the one to raise them, and care for them until they are aduls. The judge will tell him the kids are not there to see him so he can make them spies for him about what you are doing with your life. And the Judge can make sure that he is treating his children correctly, or lose his right to visits with them. Its hard enough to keep both parents on the same page when parents live together; when they are separated, it takes hercuean efforts by both parents to keep each other informed, about what the kids are doing, the rules they live by, and restrictions or punishments they are under, so that both parents can support each other in these matters. Otherwise, the kids will lose all respect for both parents, and run wild, playing one parent off the other. Most kids try to do that with their parents, even when mom and dad live under the same roof!

{KId: Mom, can I do_____? ( fill in the blank!) Mom: Go ask your father.

Kid: Dad, can I do this? Dad: Go ask your mother. Kid:Mom said its okay with her if its okay with you! Dad: well, okay. If its okay with your mother, its okay with me.

Kid: Mom, Dad said its okay with him if its okay with you. Can I do----?

Mom: Well, if your Dad says its okay, then I guess its all right with me.

Kid wins. }

That dialogue is repeated daily in thousands of homes , whether the couples are married, or divorced. The only way parents get control back, is to never listen to the kids when they say, Mom says its okay if you are okay with it. Always talk to mom, and vice versa.

Be wary of romances at this stage of your life. Your emotions are all screwed up. Any kindness shown to you by anyone else is going to send you soaring, because it feels so good. You, like everyone has a right to feel happiness. But you need a couple of years to grieve over the ending of this marriage, and you need that length of time to learn to do it on your own, to establish a new relationship with your children, get their heads turned on correctly again, and know what you really contributed to making this marriage go South. Then and only then are you ready to give your heart to someone else. Oh, its okay to date, but getting serious about some one too soon leads to dragging a lot of problems you have in this marriage into the next marriage. Give that new man in your life a break.

I was divorced from my first wife a year when I met my second wife. Unfortunately, my first wife continued to live in my house, because she would not bring herself to move. I begged, yelled, threatened, cajoled her to move, but she always had one bad reason or another. She was not mentally well. I did not want to cause a problem by taking the matter back to court and getting a court order throwing her out. ( Mr. Nice Guy.) I had other lawyers offer to represent me for free and get her out of the house, but I just could not do it. When I met my second wife, I was not looking for any kind of relationship. I was not even attacted to her the first time we met. It was she who asked me out on our first date, not me. I don't think I would have ever invited her out, considering how I was feeling about women in general at that time in my life. I certainly had no interest in getting into a new marriage! We dated two more years, before getting married, and even then it was tentative. The marriage didn't last because she decided she had made a mistake by getting married. I was ready to remarry when I did, and I had decided my own contribution to the break up of that first marriage. I still think I did some things wrong, that contributed to the breakup, and they are things I will not allow to happen again, with anyone, should I remarry. I did not have children with either wife, so those issues were not around to complicate the ending of the marriages. Unfortunately, the day my wife decided to move out was also the day she came back to my house and killed herself. I did have to deal with that, and its a good lesson that no one gets out of a marriage scott clean. In hindsight, I was still grieving over the death of my first wife when I married my second. I should have held off for another year at least, because it took me that long to get over seeing her as I found her, every day, just as close and as clear as it was when I found her body. I know I was dealing with sorrow, and some depression over that during those first months of my second marriage, and that was not really fair to my second wife. .

I still wish you all the best. If we can help with any advice as you go through this process, let us all know. There are lots of people on this forum who have gone through divorces. I am a long experienced divorce lawyer, so I have presided over many many divorces, and tried to help my client maintain some degree of civility and sanity through the court process. MY goal as a lawyer is to lend as much dignity to the process as the parties allow me to give, out of respect for both parties. the only judgment that matters about a marriage is those of the two parties. All of the rest of can tend to our own family problems.

Take Care.

Howard

Thankyou ALL for your replies I feel alot better now having people to talk to about this that have been in my position. I have a question for you Howard. My husband has threatened to take my kids even though I know he doesn't want them nor could he handle them. He already using them as pawns. He later said that he would never do that but I didn't think he'd ever even threaten that so I need to be prepared. My kids would be miserable living with their dad. I told him it would be over my dead body. Anyway, what do you know about this? Being a full time student, I do not have any money for a lawyer. Do you know how I can keep this from happening if in fact he tries? I live in Washington State.

[Iwant2Bfree]

Thankyou ALL for your replies I feel alot better now having people to talk to about this that have been in my position. I have a question for you Howard. My husband has threatened to take my kids even though I know he doesn't want them nor could he handle them. He already using them as pawns. He later said that he would never do that but I didn't think he'd ever even threaten that so I need to be prepared. My kids would be miserable living with their dad. I told him it would be over my dead body. Anyway, what do you know about this? Being a full time student, I do not have any money for a lawyer. Do you know how I can keep this from happening if in fact he tries? I live in Washington State.

Sorry, my PC messed up I didn't mean to post twice.

[Iwant2Bfree]

Dear soon2Bfree,

I know this is REALLY, REALLY hard. But try to be calm and matter of fact when dealing with you husband. Emotions run rampant during this time. He's going to say all kinds of crazy things. I highly doubt that he can take your children. Unless your totally messed up, and it doesn't sound that way. At least in my state, the court sent us to Friend of the Court for mediation. This is not marriage counciling and they could care less about the parents issues. This is all about the children, child support, visitation etc... My lawyer was not there, only the 2 parents were allowed in the room. I know this because his wife tried to join us and was kicked out. haha

Also, when the mediator had to go to the door to talk to someone, my ex made a nasty comment about Thor. Later, I thought my responce should have been, "Yes, but my orgasms are amazing!" I didn't do it though. These are things that are funny now. OK? It will get better, the clock will keep ticking until your through this. If he uses the kids as pawns, that's really sad because he may well ruin his relationship with them. Let them look back and see that you didn't. I have an awesome relationship with my (all in college) children. That's all I care about and I think that's all you care about too.

Stay Strong,

Nymph;)

Thank you again for your encouragment, you are too funny! Thanks for the laugh too

[Iwant2Bfree]

Most State Universities have a Student Legal Office where attorneys hired by the students are available to represent them on a sliding fee scale. You should also find a local Legal Aid office that represents poor people, in civil matters like Divorce. To find out what services are available, first talk to the Counseling staff at your school. If there is no legal office for students, the call any local attorney and ask them who handles the civil litigation for poor people. You also can always visit the county courthouse, and talk to the Clerk of the Court, about how things work. I know one lawyer in Washington, in Spokane, but I am afraid that is as much as I can help you.

Howard

AT least I have an idea where to start now thank you so much!

[Cyn]

Family can really help a lot in these type of situations.   I have been going to counseling for a few months now and it has helped me figure out some of my issues.  I go by myself.  Around this time I decided to take time away from my family to be around friends since I realized that I had no support system since my family lives 6 hours away except for my mom, who can't help.  I now have a place to go if I needed to and I was able to get advice from a lawyer friend for free.  Now I can have a plan in place in case there is another blow out.