Help! Please Define 'dominance'

[trickychick]

Hi,

Im in a discussion on a UK board about dominance. Someone wanted to try being dominant and I suggested for a first go, to try very light bondage arm restraints, blindfold and then teasing. I happened to use oral sex as part of my suggestion.

Another poster has said that dominance is not {as above} its getting the other person to do whatever you say, and perform for you; and that oral sex is a 'typical' sex act and dominance is somehow not a sex act, and removed from sex, and only the dominant can get pleasure from dominance, its not a mutual thing...it went on I dont think we were talking about the same thing really....As far as Im concerned dominance can be anything from tying someone up to tease them for 10 minutes or 24/7 slave and master. He disagrees. So now its quarter to one in the morning and my brain has gone fuzzy.

Anyway what I need is a concise definition of the indefinable, to illustrate that there is no exact definition of perfect dominance to stick in his dominance shaped pigeon hole...!!

[ambrelyn]

and only the dominant can get pleasure from dominance

If that were true, then why would subs want to participate? I consider myself a sub, and I wouldn't do it if I didn't get pleasure out of it. That's the whole point. And Howard is correct when he says that the sub is really in control because they have the final say in what can or can't be done, and even when to stop. If this person says that's not true, then he's really messed up. The 'motto' of the bdsm culture is safe, sane, and consensual. In my opinion, that last is the most important. Everything must be agreed upon. This guy sounds like he thinks it's just about inflicting pain, and that's not it. A little pain can seriously intensify the pleasure you feel, making the body more sensitive, but if there is no pleasure to go with it, then in my opinion it's just abuse.

You are right when you say that bdsm can be anywhere from light bondage to constant slave/master. It has to do with the comfort level. I have a friend that likes to be hit in the face during sex. Now that's more extreme than me. But then I like to be restrained and whipped. For someone else that might be too much. They might just like to be tied up and teased. But it all falls under that bdsm category. There are those that only want to punish or be punished, but that doesn't mean that you aren't dominant if you hold your SO down or tie them up and have your way with them. They can't move, you are in control, therefore you are dominant and they are submissive. To me dominance is control and submission is a surrender of control. If you are dominant you are in control of the situation. It is up to you what is done and how it's done and for how long it's done.(Up to a point. If the sub is no longer comfortable with what is going on, the dom has to stop.) The sub doesn't want control. They don't want to be in charge. They want to give up their control. The dominant has the greater responsibility, however. They have to make sure that they aren't doing anything that hurts their sub, that their sub is enjoying it and hasn't reached their tolerance limit. A sub has to trust their dom completely. They have to know that things won't go past what they can handle, and that the dom would never try to seriously hurt them. There has to be a 'safe' word that both individuals know and that has nothing to do with sex, like sandwich or elephant or something. When the sub says this word, the dom must stop whatever they're doing and take the level of intensity down a few notches. He has to ultimately do what the sub says. When all of this is done correctly, it's enjoyable for both parties. To say that it is all about the dominant one is a gross misunderstanding of the lifestyle.

I'm sure Mikayla will be able to add more to what I've said. She has more experience with it than I do.

[trickychick]

When it comes to dom/sub play, we like to think what we do is normal, and what others do is abnormal. In most cases, people are a lot more alike, but just do things differently. Its important to maintain those differences, within limits, to add spice to life. However, the reason we have " Safe" words in BDSM is so the Sub is always in control and sets his or her own limits.

Yes, this is one of the things this poster couldnt understand, the idea that the sub actually does have control...this guy maintained that this was not dominance if both parties had control, and said that a discussion about limits before hand was more like role play which they said was 'not sex'. Actually, this poster said alot of contradictory things, but he was very good at english and writing, so what seemed coherent at first turned out to be rather ignorant and closed-minded. He absoloutely would not accept what I was suggesting. Also, he was also only 19! I despaired when he finally said 'we will have to agree to disagree'.

'only the dominant can get pleasure from dominance'

If that were true, then why would subs want to participate?

Exactly, but he could not get this. I think he wanted dominance to be like all the things he hasnt tried, bondage, roleplay, swinging, (his words) as he said he had used blindfold and restraints and given oral during this but didnt consider it dominance just typical sex...because (as howard said 'we like to think what we do is normal, and what others do is abnormal') he had done it himself so it couldnt possibly be bondage or dominance by his definition only.

[ambrelyn]

well, he was an uninformed idiot. You can never change the mind of someone like that, unfortunately.

[nosleepnmesa]

WOW! I have read Mikayla's BDSM article a couple times and let me tell ya it is full of information.I totally agree with sending her article to this guy, and heck maybe here will come to this forum and get educated a little. I have to give it also to Bondagejunkie great job in discribtion. I learned even more. Sometimes you will be amazed at the information you can learn on here.

[Mikayla1]

Here is the breakdown, the real truth behind BDSM:

The DOMINANT is the one is control of the scenario, in that he or she is the one doing the tying, the spanking, the teasing, the humiliation or whatever. The DOM runs the scenario - they are the ones who enjoy being in control of another. For a true DOM, someone in the lifestyle, not just getting paid to pretend to be one, they can derive extreme sexual pleasure from dominating another. From causing pain to another, sexually stimulating another while that person is restrained (although this is not usually even necessary) or just by forcing that person to submit. In that way, the DOMINANT is the one in control - and they do indeed get pleasure from the situation.

The sub, however, is truly the one in control in that the DOM is usually fixated on the sub, he or she is in a trusting relationship with that sub and is attracted to (and sometimes loves) that sub. The sub is a matter of art for that DOM. The sub is putting their life in the hands of the DOM, and the DOM gets a sexual kick from that. Now, a true sub (someone in the lifestyle) really gets pleasure from seeing their DOM happy, from having things done to them, from serving the DOM. They like to be restrained, they may like pain mixed with pleasure. Not doing what the DOM asks is NOT a consideration - they would always do what asked unconditionally. In that manner, the sub derives pleasure from serving the DOM.

DOMINANCE in and of itself is NOT a sexual act. It is a mode of thinking. Dominants like the control, they get off on controlling the situation completely. They like to put their sub in various situations, and many DOMS push the limit on what they can do. A large part of dominance is thinking about the scenario that you will make your sub perform - it is NOT a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants kind of thing. Most DOMS know what they are doing beforehand. Also, DOMS do NOT want to hurt their subs - they want them to have pleasure, they want them to get off - it is their goal. So to suggest that the DOM is the only one who gets pleasure is a lie and deceitful. Many times the sub gets off and the DOM doesn't.

The fallacy of DOM/sub scenarios is that the DOM is always having the sub lick or suck them, and doing various sex acts. Truthfully, in the real lifestyle, there is much more non-sexual acts than sexual ones. While this might lead to sex - it doesn't always.

There are those people who are called "switches" and these people like to be a DOM and a sub. While I think that your heart lies one way or another - many people can and do equally go between the two and enjoy the two the same. As I worked in a club, and had both roles - that was a persona, a job - it was not where my heart lies. My heart lies with the sub. I much more enjoy taking the orders than presenting them. I also realize that I have the power in the situation, and I think I get off on that!

This is why I say that my article might help, but might not. My article is a beginner's guide to BDSM from the angle of sex and fun - not so much for people IN the lifestyle of BDSM.

I hope that this explanation helped to dispell the questions that you had. I truly think that people who have not lived with BDSM, that is had the actual experience of being with a DOM or being a DOM themselves, would not understand this question. For those who are just starting to get into the lifestyle - try to realize that there is more to it than sex. I am not talking about pain, or extreme restraining, I am talking about true submission - the giving over of yourself to another. Think about how open that makes you.

Good luck and I hope this helped!

Mikayla

[nosleepnmesa]

Mikayla, thank you so much for that added information. Just reading your post opened my mind up even more, in fact my husband just listen to me read this post to him. Since he was being to lazy to get up and read with me

WOW!!! I am already in a sense taking the roll of the SUB, but since we just got started in this type of play which is new to us, besides the restraining and teasing and things we have also been into that. The actually role playing as a SUB or DOM has always caught my attention and now you help bring us to a whole new world. Thank you so much for such wonderful information.

[ambrelyn]

As usual Mikayla explained what I was trying to get across in a much better way.

I totally agree with the dom/sub 'positions' spilling over into normal every day life. This is the case with my fiancee and me, to a point. I am always looking to do things that will please him. He likes to order me to fix him a drink or whatever, and I jump to do it to please him. I'm always trying to make sure that he is comfortable and happy. Things like scratching his back or rubbing his neck, etc while we are sitting watching tv. Now this is not to say that he doesn't do the same things for me sometimes. So we are not in the 'mode' 24/7, but if he asks me to do something for him, I do it without question. If I'm not fast enough he'll punish me, either then or later. Sometimes I'll even be 'bad' to be punished. There's another example of how the sub enjoys being submissive. For me, it isn't just about the sexual games we play, but about making him happy in all things.