Help! Dysfunctional Sex Life!

[Smile4Me]

Ok, so I apologize ahead of time if this is long-winded, but I've just got to get it out and get some unbiased peer-review on the topic!

Let me start with some background info, then I'll get to the point.

Hubby and I have been married for 4 years now; in those 4 years and I can honestly say, life wouldn't be the same without him! The emotional connection we share is unreal, and I don't think I could ask for a better person to be with as far as my emotional needs go. Since about year 2, we've participated in the Swing lifestyle. We're both very open-minded people, sexually; I'm bisexual and he is more than supportive of that! We've had lots of encounters, and are pretty satisfied in our decision to engage in an open-marriage. We don't have any children, it's just the two of us, but our sex life...well...it COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SUCKS.

We've talked and talked, and tried this and tried that...he is just completely uninterested!!!! It's infuriating! The kicker here is, he's 23 years old!!! What the hell! I'm 22 years old, and have sex maybe 3 (4 or 5 in a good month) times a month. Does anyone else see a problem here? I'm really starting to think he's just too lazy to make the effort. BTW--I read the "Sexual Disconnection" article in it's entirety, and it was encouraging BUT I can't help but feel resentful towards his rejection, especially when he has no problem desiring other women.

Have I opened pandora's box and ruined him completely? Is it possible for a man to be sexually spoiled? I noticed catching him masturbating a lot too, and when confronted later, he says he just didn't feel like going into a full-on sex session. Are you kidding me? He'd rather masturbate than have sex! Even when we do have sex, it's far from fulfilling, he rushes through everything, as if it's the equivelent of taking out the trash. He has always been a fulfilling lover in the past, probably part of the reason why I married him LOL. But in just this past year, he appears to have settled into this lackluster sex life completely. Certainly someone can relate to this dismay. Please, any commments or suggestions are greatly appreciated

Sam (Smile4Me)

[Mikayla1]

I will have a good bit to say about this, but I have to run off to work! You may be making a 'attribution error', which means the source of the problems may not be what you think they are.......Catch you later.

OK, I am gonna take a stab at what Iha wants to say, and if I am wrong, it is what I wanted to say anyway.

You admit to having a 'swinging' lifestyle - mutally exceptable by both of you. Well, to put it bluntly, you are attributing to your own marital issues by allowing your hubby to sleep with other women. While there are many couples who have no issues with this type of lifestyle, far more do have issues. Why? Well, women are typically jealous creatures, and men are typically not of a monagamous mind. Therefore, you give the man the garden of eden and he is going to induldge in all the fruit and may not pay much attention to the person serving it.

Now, do I say this to 'blame' you - of course not. However, there is more going on here than meets the eye. You say he wants 'the quick release' - well, this is not uncommon either. Many men want the sexual release - but not the 'work' (foreplay, specifically) that goes with it. I always say this isn't an issue, if he is not ignoring you and your needs, but he IS. This is where the problem lies.

Of course you are going to be resentful, who wouldn't. Does he KNOW that you are resentful? What is his response? I mean, perhaps the real issue here is, he wants to be free to be with other people. IF he is not with you at all, then to quote a terrible comedian, 'there's your sign.'

I am sorry to sound so blunt, but.....things don't look good from where I sit. Not hopeless mind you, but not good. Many men who are successful in this type of relationship have high sex drives and want to satisfy their original lover as much as themselves. This seems like he is all out for himself.

Perhaps ask him if he is willing to give up the swinging and just be with you - just you two. See what his answer is to that, it may be the answer you are looking for in general!

Good luck and I may have more to say later!

[lil_librarian]

I would imagine that in order for a "swinging lifestyle" to work both partners must be able compltetely satisfy each other together on a consistant basis. Only then, could you venture out for other partners, and NOT neglect each other. This is sooo not happening in your situation so I would not classify it as a swinging lifestyle., I mean you might feel it's you and he having this great swingers lifstyle but he appears to be taking it as an open marriage to do as he like. You both are not on the same page, so to speak. You both really need to get back to the basics of your relationship, meaning no sex with anyone but each other. You need to work on open and honest communication of what it working right and what is working wrong. You need to have a EXTENDED period of time where you and he are enjoying a healthy mutually satisfying sex life before you can contemplate introducing other partners into the mix.

[DADT]

Maybe it isn't the Swinging. How are you guys getting along in your regular life? Maybe there is some dissatisfaction going on that's getting in the way of his true lust for you. Is he otherwise the happy guy you married? BTW, if you have been getting angry at him because he won't give you nookie, he will be even less likely to want it with you.

So check your emotional connections with each other. Just a thought.

[Smile4Me]

Maybe it isn't the Swinging. How are you guys getting along in your regular life? Maybe there is some dissatisfaction going on that's getting in the way of his true lust for you. Is he otherwise the happy guy you married? BTW, if you have been getting angry at him because he won't give you nookie, he will be even less likely to want it with you.

So check your emotional connections with each other. Just a thought.

First of all, thanks to EVERYONE for their input, It has been enlightening hearing your replies.

Dadt: to answer your questions, we really get along great in regular day to day life. He is definitely NOT the same humble, sweet man I married, and I can't help but contribute that to his government job. He works 60hrs a week every week and comes home each day more and more resentful of his job and the disrespect he receives on a daily basis. Part of me thinks things will be better when he seperates from the military this summer; I know what those guys go through, and I try to be as supportive as I can. There is part of me that still believes I should come first, no matter how naive that may be in reality. I don't usually get angry with him about the lack of sex, but I do try and talk to him about it, and he says the more I talk to him the more he feels like a failure, because the desire to have sex PERIOD is not there ( why do I find this ironic?)

Going back to the swinging lifestyle; we took a long (about 8 months) break from the lifestyle, just to have some us time, and it seems like things just got worst during that time. We are very open when it comes to telling each other how we feel, so the communication is there, it's just not bringing about change. He says that the thing that draws him to the lifestyle is the change of scenery and being able to explore sex with other people without any need of emotional investment, which I completely and totally agree with. I would love to be in a monogomous marriage again, and he knows this, but it's almost like an altimatum---he gets to taste the rainbow or I suffer through a sex-less marriage.

Iha, Mikayla, and Lil-Librarian: All of you have touched on topics I've thought about consistently for the last year. I'm sure all of you see me as a young, naive girl who is basically contributing to her own future divorce, but hear me out, as I am on the same page with you. I have tried so many things, I pick his brain and try to find what really turns him on, and I know I've delivered on every level I can possibly imagine. Our friends (both monogomous, and lifestyle friends) all see us as this really secure couple, which to the naked eye would seem the case, because like I said earlier, our emotional bond feels strong. All other areas of our relationship are good; we can talk to each other about anything, we are both very affectionate and loving, and we always take the time to tell each other how much we mean to one another. It is as if sex only takes away from the perfect relationship we COULD have if it just wasn't a part of anything to begin with!! Strange huh?? I'm thinking back-asswards actually.

Swinging really seems to be the only thing keeping what little sexual relationship we do have going; and well, not to sound selfish, it's the only way I can get satisfied. The 15 min sack-sessions once on the weekend where he appears to want to go to sleep or go for a run are probably the biggest turnoff imaginable, I can't help but be displaced from the whole experience. If we didn't swing, I'd probably go crazy from sexual frustration; masturbation and being able to have sex with other men and women are only ways I keep my sanity anymore it seems!

Hopefully this gives a little more insight into our situation, your replies really help so please keep them coming!!!

[Smile4Me]

IHA--I wanted to add one more thing. I completely agree with your opinion that maybe we didn't wait long enough before opening that door; I think that the door was opened initially because we both realized that marrying too young is a mistake many couples (especially military couples) make. I think opening the marriage initially was a way for us both to sew our wild oats, and in that aspect, it has been successful. The threats of cheating and jealousy are just not there, because neither one of us resents having to be with the same person sexually. Do you get what I'm shooting for?

[Mikayla1]

I think you sort of answered your own question when you said, "when we took a break from the lifestyle, things got worse."

Why is that? Think about this, he is getting the best of all worlds here, he gets to have you and all the other 'new scenery' he wants. The difference, it seems to me, between you and your hb and other people in a swinging or open relationship is, he doesn't seem to be that into YOU, unless you are a part of the swinging.

I have no doubt that you are old enough to make this decision, but I mirror Iha on the 'maybe you opened the door too soon.' I wonder, why get married? I mean, you both mention that you want these other people - maybe him more than you, so why marry? Why not do a FWB type situation? Does the thrill get better if you are in a committed relationship?

I am sorry to be brutally honest, but i would say that either the other posters are right and you have something else completely going on in your life that is being mirrored in the sex life OR he is just not into sex with you as it should be. So, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to have a lifetime of this type of 'marital' sex in exchange for the sex outside of your marriage. If it were me - and I am a bi-sexual woman as well - I would gladly trade the outside sex with other men or women to have my secure, very intimate and connected married sex life, but that is me.

[lil_librarian]

Honestly, when I read this...it is very hard to imagine that everything is hunky-dory in you and your husband's personal life, out side of sex.. It seems like this has been going on for quite some time. I say this not to hurt you but, if your husband is unwilling to have sex with you and is using your alternate lifestyle as an excuse to fulfill his desire..for me, it would seem as though he IS cheating. YOU and YOUR marriage should come first. Outside stressers in his life MAY be a factor, but he made his marriage vows to.... Am I making sense?

[Smile4Me]

Thanks again Mikayla and Lil-Librarian.

Honestly, the "maybe he's just not that into you" thing has been the prime concern here. He claims that I am beautiful to him and that he is very sexually attracted to me. Of course that would be the default answer for most guys who would like to stay out of the dog house!! LOL To be perfectly honest, I've even brought up divorce!! It has come up in our conversations, because it isn't just me that notices this lack of chemistry (for lack of better terms). Everytime I tell him that he isn't giving me what I need and that I feel sex is a pivotal part of marriage, he blows me off, saying "I'm sorry babe, I'm trying, I'm so tired all the time..." and blah-blah-blah. It's like this whole burden had fallen on my shoulders, he doesn't sexually desire ME, so I have to spice things up, and I have to fix this and that, and he just gets to sit back. Frankly, I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one putting forth effort. I thought maybe it was just a difference in sex drives, but honestly, how many 23 yr old men do you know have a problem with desire? UGHH....thanks for letting me vent guys, hopefully you understand my frustration. Mikayla, I can't speak for him when I say why we married, but I married because he WAS the best person I had ever met, and I wanted to see the world with him by my side. Our chemistry used to be unmatching, but something changed along the way. I just have to put my finger on it.

[DADT]

Thanks again Mikayla and Lil-Librarian.

Honestly, the "maybe he's just not that into you" thing has been the prime concern here. He claims that I am beautiful to him and that he is very sexually attracted to me. Of course that would be the default answer for most guys who would like to stay out of the dog house!! LOL To be perfectly honest, I've even brought up divorce!! It has come up in our conversations, because it isn't just me that notices this lack of chemistry (for lack of better terms). Everytime I tell him that he isn't giving me what I need and that I feel sex is a pivotal part of marriage, he blows me off, saying "I'm sorry babe, I'm trying, I'm so tired all the time..." and blah-blah-blah. It's like this whole burden had fallen on my shoulders, he doesn't sexually desire ME, so I have to spice things up, and I have to fix this and that, and he just gets to sit back. Frankly, I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one putting forth effort. I thought maybe it was just a difference in sex drives, but honestly, how many 23 yr old men do you know have a problem with desire? UGHH....thanks for letting me vent guys, hopefully you understand my frustration. Mikayla, I can't speak for him when I say why we married, but I married because he WAS the best person I had ever met, and I wanted to see the world with him by my side. Our chemistry used to be unmatching, but something changed along the way. I just have to put my finger on it.

SLOW DOWN. Divorce? You've been married like 5 minutes.

I've only got your description to go by, but something is profoundly up with your fella. He's unhappy about something and its manifesting itself in him withdrawing sexually. I agree that you are both young people and normally couples your age have sex constantly. And as a young, healthy woman you should indeed expect to be having sex pretty much on demand. That's if you are both in a happy place. But he isn't is he? And maybe you aren't either.

The "maybe he's just not that into you" diagnosis doesn't go deep enough. If that's true then you need to ask why not. Not long ago you were so happy with each other you got married. So what did you adore about each other then (and I mean non-sexually) and what happened to it? Are you still friends in the same way? Do you still like and understand how each of you think about things?

BTW, a sense of failure is about the most debilitating feeling a men can have. Feeling like a failure is corrosive to a man, somewhat akin to a woman not feeling secure. Does his job suck so much that its taken his smile away? Does he feel like maybe you look at him as a failure? I'm not saying you do. I'm just asking could he feel like you do?

And of course you want him to talk. Your desperate. Where did honey go? You're supposed to be his Everything. Feels like he kinda abandoned you. WTF right? And the maddening thing is you are completely justified to feel that way. You didn't do anything wrong that we know of. But I'm going to suggest something to you that right now is a "big ask." Back off. Your soul mate is hurting. He can't understand it completely. He has no control over it. And to talk about it with you is so painful he shuts down. To a woman it makes no sense. You guys share your darkest thoughts with each other and take great comfort in having that outlet. A man could be dying of a cancerous tumor and have 3 weeks to live, and would still rather talk about sports with his buddies than admit he's terrified. We are different animals.

Does the swinging help? No. Its noise. A distraction. He fucks some anonymous woman or masturbates to porn as a temporary form of self soothing. For 30 minutes he distracted from his real headache. But its enabling him to avoid what he's feeling. S.O.P. for Men. And it's probably that way for you too. If you can get this swinging phase behind you it will help a bunch. Sadly I don't have "Disengaging from Swinging for Dummies" instructions.

If it was just about having jolly orgasms then you'd be happily continuing with "the Lifestyle." But it isn't. You really want to reconnect badly, feel loved and cherished. Healthy, sensual sex is all part of that.

I haven't really given you any answers. But perhaps some things to think about. Good luck.

[Smile4Me]

All I can say is WOW DADT!!! I'll say "something to think about" I was so enlightened by what you said that I shared it with my hubby this afternoon when he got home from work, and it turned into one of the most productive, if not theraputic conversations we've ever had. He was shocked that someone he didn't know had pegged him and his situation so well; especially a deep-seeded issue that even he couldn't adequately come to terms with on his own. It was almost a bitter-sweet experience, as I didn't know he was so unhappy to begin with, I never knew that hating your job could be so influential on your personal life, especially to the point that it changed his overall perspective on life and relationships (sexually and otherwise). I don't want to write you guys a novel, so I'll highlight:

He's a junior-enlisted marine, and he's 10lbs overweight...not sure if anyone knows, but that is OBESE according to the Marines. Day in and day out, he is criticized and undermined, because a "fat" marine, is not worthy of respect. Now this isn't NEW NEWS to me, I know it must hurt him to be in a job built on superficial monotony, and be the so-called black-sheep of his unit; I'm here every afternoon when he needs someone to vent to. I NEVER EVER realized how much of an impact this had on him, not until this evening. He described his job in the Marines as a life-sucking force that he couldn't escape. The more I think about it, the more I feel like, hell, I wouldn't be the same humble and loving individual either. Think about it, if you had a job where your extra 10lbs was sitting between you and your next promotion, and the hard work you put in every day is reduced to nothing because of how you look in your uniform, opening up to someone sexually would only allow you to become even more vulnerable. I feel horrible for not looking at the big picture, but at least I know why he's so different today, than he was when I married him.

I just wish I could fix it for him. I wish everyone else saww him for what a fantastic person he is; but then again, he's my best friend for a reason.

Not to get all mushy on you guys, but it was a very emotional conversation! He opened up to me in a way I've never seen him do, and all because of you DADT! I now have the piece of mind that it's not just ME. Much thanks to everyone who contributed to my question, and DADT...you rock; I deem you DR. DADT (you should seriously consider being a shrink, if you haven't already LOL!!)

[DADT]

Ignore. Clicked the wrong button. Next post is the one you want.

[DADT]

All I can say is WOW DADT!!! I'll say "something to think about" I was so enlightened by what you said that I shared it with my hubby this afternoon when he got home from work, and it turned into one of the most productive, if not theraputic conversations we've ever had. He was shocked that someone he didn't know had pegged him and his situation so well; especially a deep-seeded issue that even he couldn't adequately come to terms with on his own. It was almost a bitter-sweet experience, as I didn't know he was so unhappy to begin with, I never knew that hating your job could be so influential on your personal life, especially to the point that it changed his overall perspective on life and relationships (sexually and otherwise). I don't want to write you guys a novel, so I'll highlight:

He's a junior-enlisted marine, and he's 10lbs overweight...not sure if anyone knows, but that is OBESE according to the Marines. Day in and day out, he is criticized and undermined, because a "fat" marine, is not worthy of respect. Now this isn't NEW NEWS to me, I know it must hurt him to be in a job built on superficial monotony, and be the so-called black-sheep of his unit; I'm here every afternoon when he needs someone to vent to. I NEVER EVER realized how much of an impact this had on him, not until this evening. He described his job in the Marines as a life-sucking force that he couldn't escape. The more I think about it, the more I feel like, hell, I wouldn't be the same humble and loving individual either. Think about it, if you had a job where your extra 10lbs was sitting between you and your next promotion, and the hard work you put in every day is reduced to nothing because of how you look in your uniform, opening up to someone sexually would only allow you to become even more vulnerable. I feel horrible for not looking at the big picture, but at least I know why he's so different today, than he was when I married him.

I just wish I could fix it for him. I wish everyone else saww him for what a fantastic person he is; but then again, he's my best friend for a reason.

Not to get all mushy on you guys, but it was a very emotional conversation! He opened up to me in a way I've never seen him do, and all because of you DADT! I now have the piece of mind that it's not just ME. Much thanks to everyone who contributed to my question, and DADT...you rock; I deem you DR. DADT (you should seriously consider being a shrink, if you haven't already LOL!!)

I've never been a Marine. But as far as the rest of those feelings go lets just say in the past I have "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, sweatshirt, and baseball cap."

I'm proud of you for having the guts to show it to him. And I am glad that it helped. You guys are not unique in dealing with these issues. And when you are young just figuring out what the issues are is hard enough. Luckily you decided to not struggle alone.

If I can I'll give you more feedback. Be kind and gentle to each other. You don't even know how massive last night was for you. He doesn't have to "marine" his way through his marriage anymore. Your honey will start reappearing as you guys figure out what next.

Regards, DADT

[Smile4Me]

Thanks so much Dadt, those are very encouraging words! I've already noticed a bigger sense of peace just in his demeanor; it's kind of like our talk took a huge monkey off his back and now he can relax. He smiled at me today during his lunch break, and I almost didn't remember how handsome he was when he smiles. I guess my marital pressures were only fueling the psychological stress of feeling like a "failure" at work, and brought them home too. I interested to see where things go now, assuming we are on the same page with one another. I had some humbling realizations last night; I realize how unsuportive I was of his pain. Everytime he came home to "bitch about another bad day" I would just roll my eyes and say "nothing you can do about it" which was far from encouraging I'm sure. Now that I know what eats him up, I can at least do my best wrap a bandage around his wounds.

I guess this is why I felt our emotional bond was good; I feel like if we had any emotional problems in our marriage, swinging would have destroyed us a long time ago. (Sad but very true). Just the fact that we were able to level with each other, and that he was able to show me a softer side of a rather arrogant marine I've learned to know and love, makes me confident that we could survive some brutal blows. Your feedback is always appreciated, Dadt. As for everyone else, please add your thoughts too! Everyone here has helped me look at the big picture and figure out what was behind this loss of intimacy, and for that I am very grateful! I only wish I had friends like that close by. Have a great afternoon everyone

[DADT]

Thanks so much Dadt, those are very encouraging words! I've already noticed a bigger sense of peace just in his demeanor; it's kind of like our talk took a huge monkey off his back and now he can relax. He smiled at me today during his lunch break, and I almost didn't remember how handsome he was when he smiles. I guess my marital pressures were only fueling the psychological stress of feeling like a "failure" at work, and brought them home too. I interested to see where things go now, assuming we are on the same page with one another. I had some humbling realizations last night; I realize how unsuportive I was of his pain. Everytime he came home to "bitch about another bad day" I would just roll my eyes and say "nothing you can do about it" which was far from encouraging I'm sure. Now that I know what eats him up, I can at least do my best wrap a bandage around his wounds.

I guess this is why I felt our emotional bond was good; I feel like if we had any emotional problems in our marriage, swinging would have destroyed us a long time ago. (Sad but very true). Just the fact that we were able to level with each other, and that he was able to show me a softer side of a rather arrogant marine I've learned to know and love, makes me confident that we could survive some brutal blows. Your feedback is always appreciated, Dadt. As for everyone else, please add your thoughts too! Everyone here has helped me look at the big picture and figure out what was behind this loss of intimacy, and for that I am very grateful! I only wish I had friends like that close by. Have a great afternoon everyone

Smiley:

OK. At the risk of becoming the uncle you never wanted, I have a few more thoughts.

You done some great things. You've potentially saved what can become a great marriage. You have made it possible for your depressed hubby to see hope again. And you have made it easier for him to unburden himself of his sense of shame brought on by perceiving himself as a failure. That is quite remarkable given your age and your own feelings of anger. You must have very good instincts. That will help you a lot. And will help him trust you as the years unfold. I would say that you beat yourself up too much as the "non-supportive wife." How could you understand his shame, if he disguised it with anger & emotional withdrawal?

I hope we've convinced you that the swinging should stop. I'm not judging you or him. Its neither wrong or right as long as everyone involved is consenting. However, you want true intimacy with hubby. Why? You don't just miss sex (you have an outlet for that). You miss him really being completely part of your whole life. Men and woman need sexual intimacy for different reasons. But it is still essential to both genders. It really is the glue that bonds a woman and a man together. Otherwise, just be palls & roommates & FWBs as Mikayla so eloquently intimated. That's what you want. Its why you got married. Well, I don't believe you can regain that if you continue to swing because it really is going to confuse the sexual messages you send yourselves and each other. How do you convince yourselves that sex with each other is something special, to be cherished and nurtured, and then tell yourself that the recreational fucking you do with other people is no biggy. You are both asking your emotional brains to do a lot of acrobatics when you really need your focus to be on each other. OK I think I've flogged that dead horse enough.

So he is a marine. That is a very overpowering culture. Not one conducive to training young men to be sensitive husbands. And from what my friends who are former marines tell me, if you succeed in their terms you are golden. If you fail you an object of shame. And failure and shame are things that terrify men. Can they succeed at providing for their family? Can they succeed at making their spouse happy? Can they achieve in the workplace? If at every turn a man hears the answer is "no," he begins to break down. Which is basically what you are witnessing. Its made more acute by the fact that he has no way out of the Marine Corp in the near term. And that has a knock on effect in the other areas of his like, and of course yours. Any of this ringing true?

And now I have a big ask again. Back off on the demands for sex. I know that is completely unfair. You have done nothing wrong, and jeepers you have needs too. But sex right now is dividing you emotionally. You both need the opportunity for that issue to be less emotionally charged. I think you'll find that if you back off, he will feel safer and come out of his shell. It may take time mind. But it will happen. Actually, let me amend that so it isn't drudgery for you. Don't demand intercourse. Making demands kills desire, the very thing you want to come back. However, you can ask him to learn how to pleasure you orally, if he hasn't become good at that already. Excuse me for being so graphic, but we are all adults here. It is a nice way for him to succeed with you. That will help build him up again. And then pretty soon, starting with some nice, tender oral, will lead to the rip roaring sex that you read about in "Young Bride Magazine."

OK last piece of unsolicited advice. When the immediate unhappiness has abated & you guys think that you are back in a "happy place" where you can talk openly & freely again, I'm going to suggest some reading. There is a book by Willard F. Harley, PhD called "LOVE BUSTERS: Protecting Your Marriage from Habits That Destroy Romantic Love." Its really written for couples with more miles on their relationship. But you are an intelligent woman who seems capable of some preventive medicine. It basically identifies the behaviors that men and women respond negatively to in each other, and suggests alternative ways for couples to interact. Can't hurt to read it.

Hope I helped. Hope I haven't pissed you off.

[mystofpric]

Can I make a suggestion that perhaps in my skimming I missed: Go back to stopping teh swingers lifestyle, and then ignore the piss out of him. Okay I'm gonna get jumped for puttng it like that but what I mean is be your normal wonderfull dripping with sexy self, and let him come to you. Make it clear to him your interested but let him make the moves. Oh it's gonna be frustrating, unbelieveablely so. But if he feels like a failure when you talk to him (see I was kinda catching up) then ask for the break and tell him that when he feels liek sex, or even just some quick head (remind him sexualy activity doesn't have to be a huge deal) to come get you.

Just a thought maybe i should read all that....

[Smile4Me]

Dadt:

You speak with such reason, it would be impossible for me to get pissed at you LOL. Hell, you called me an intelligent woman, which only gives you brownie points The fact that you're taking time out of your day to add your input into some young wife's marital/sexual troubles shows what a nice individual you are! You really gave me exactly what I needed, which was another man's perspective AND you certainly hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of his job. He joined so he could serve his country and feel like a hero, as I imagine most Marines do; but I feel for him in that it hasn't given him half of what he's worth, if anything, it has smothered the admirable traits he once felt he had.

AND back to swinging (sigh). The whole thing is almost exhausting to think about in between studying socialist theories and business laws. Huff---I digress. The swinging thing is a very difficult topic. Both of us enjoy being with other people sexually; if anything it makes the sex between him and I very lusty and exciting (well, once upon a time). Initially I felt like it was what created the sexual barrier between us, like he'd rather be with other women than the same ol' pussy every night (pardon the language). The problem is, and I go by our previous trials at complete monogomy, the sex fizzles. It gets boring and well, becomes what he so tenderly refers to as "married sex."

I know that's a horrible way to look at things, and I know I'm naive to the many issues that should probably be shooting off metaphoric "ERROR" flares, but I don't know what else to do really. We talked about the lifestyle in our convo, and both agreed that the way we prioritized meeting up with other couples was not helping, and that it was time we could have been spending working on our own sexual relationship. BUT....neither one of us wants things to fall back into a routine again. My husband is a very logical thinker, he is far from creative. So when it comes to changing things up, that usually falls on my shoulders.

As for the oral thing you mentioned, I don't know what planet my husband reigned from, but when he doesn't want sex, he doesn't want ANYTHING to do with sex. Notably in that aspect, I feel he is very selfish. I have never been demanding of sex, I'm just too passive for that. I usually approach the area of sexual suggestion with caution in fear of being rejected; rightly so, I am USUALLY rejected. Once a girl is turned down so many times, she stops trying, and once I stopped trying, our sex life diminished. Thus why I jumped on this sexpert board with such haste and visible frustration! I'm glad I found what psychological barrier sits between him and I sexually, but now I worry that the job frustration will be used as a scape goat for continued sexual denial. Then again, I overanalyze a lot of things.

It's the classic "caught btwn a rock and a hard place" scenario no matter which way I turn, and I'm not sure how to approach the whole damn thing.

SuzyP: I have tried that tactic OVER AND OVER again. It just doesn't work. He's too smart for that. It's like he almost TRIES to deny it, just so he can watch me squirm over it. I am a VERY sexual being, and aside from the physical frustrations, the inadequacies I feel more than lessen my self assurance. Maybe subconsciously he feels this perceived sexual prowess when I initiate things with him, so he rejects ME and it replaces his sense of failure in other areas of his life. But who am I kidding, I'm no PHD.

Sorry for that very long-winded reply, I tried to cover all the bases. By all means, speak your mind!

[DADT]

AND back to swinging (sigh). The whole thing is almost exhausting to think about in between studying socialist theories and business laws. Huff---I digress. The swinging thing is a very difficult topic. Both of us enjoy being with other people sexually; if anything it makes the sex between him and I very lusty and exciting (well, once upon a time). Initially I felt like it was what created the sexual barrier between us, like he'd rather be with other women than the same ol' pussy every night (pardon the language). The problem is, and I go by our previous trials at complete monogomy, the sex fizzles. It gets boring and well, becomes what he so tenderly refers to as "married sex."

You're going to hate me.

I changed my mind. Get divorced. Go ahead and continue the recreational fucking. I can see how you would value that over becoming real soul mates. And isn't it a chore to figure out how to push your partner's sexual buttons. All that tiresome trial and error. Does he like his balls licked? Deapthroat or slowly suck the tip? Should I talk dirty? OK to pull his hair? Nails on the back? I wonder if he'd jerk off in front on me? That would be hot. Nah, too much work.

BTW, the swinging thing may have become an addiction. That's why you may be afraid to give it up. Its a narcotic high. Take you out of yourself for the evening. Super. And yet here you are asking us for help because you can't connect right with hubby. And we're happy to help. A lot of us have had to overcome disconnection and lack of intimacy issues. But you got to listen. Unless you want to be yet another case of marital roadkill. And how empty would both of you feel if that happened.

WTF is "Married Sex." Stale, unimaginative, repetitive, same thing on the menu each week. That what you are getting at? Well yeah, that will indeed happen if you and he are mentally lazy. You want hot sex? Make it happen. He will be creative if he's encouraged to be. So just freak him out, but in a good way. Strip for him. Masturbate in front of him (he'll say he disapproves, but he'll love it), random blow jobs in the car. There's a billion terabytes of erotica on the web. Do some research. Make him do some too. Hey do it together.

I know that's a horrible way to look at things, and I know I'm naive to the many issues that should probably be shooting off metaphoric "ERROR" flares, but I don't know what else to do really. We talked about the lifestyle in our convo, and both agreed that the way we prioritized meeting up with other couples was not helping, and that it was time we could have been spending working on our own sexual relationship. BUT....neither one of us wants things to fall back into a routine again. My husband is a very logical thinker, he is far from creative. So when it comes to changing things up, that usually falls on my shoulders.

You want to save a marriage or ensure an equitable distribution of emotional labor? You are clearly very smart. You express yourself very well. So I think you will understand what I'm about to say. Neither of you are emotionally strong right now. Beneath all the clever phrasing I sense emotional exhaustion. Probably the worst frame of mind to start developing a solid, mature, relationship. But you are where are.

If you spend a life time together, and I really hope you do, the emotional burden will ebb and flow between you. Some times you feel stronger. Some times you will need him to hold you up. And some times it will be about equal. And that's the fun of a real relationship. To need someone and to have them need you back. Ring true?

Right now you are the stronger one. So yeah, you have the burden if that's what you want to call it.

As for the oral thing you mentioned, I don't know what planet my husband reigned from, but when he doesn't want sex, he doesn't want ANYTHING to do with sex. Notably in that aspect, I feel he is very selfish. I have never been demanding of sex, I'm just too passive for that. I usually approach the area of sexual suggestion with caution in fear of being rejected; rightly so, I am USUALLY rejected. Once a girl is turned down so many times, she stops trying, and once I stopped trying, our sex life diminished. Thus why I jumped on this sexpert board with such haste and visible frustration! I'm glad I found what psychological barrier sits between him and I sexually, but now I worry that the job frustration will be used as a scape goat for continued sexual denial. Then again, I overanalyze a lot of things.

If you work on fixing his sense of failure at work, showing him you accept and understand and still really love him, he will feel safe again and want sex. His sense of shame should diminish. Obviously, the "What can you do about? Just suck it up" approach didn't work. It will take time. Be patient.

But don't be passive. Implies you don't care. You want the opposite. Done the right way, being a sexual aggressive female is a huge turn on to a man. In fact, when your marine finally lets his guard down, and allows you a bit further in his heart, he's going to love being overpowered by you. So put on your "That's Mrs. Bitch to you" t-shirt and get demanding. In a good way. He will follow. Start by teaching him how to lick you. Every man has to know that. Its the sexual equivalent of having a drivers license. As he gets better at it he will like how you respond to it. That will keep him coming back to your "same old, tired-ass, married" pussy. You dig?

It's the classic "caught btwn a rock and a hard place" scenario no matter which way I turn, and I'm not sure how to approach the whole damn thing.

If he sees you fight to make your marriage work, he should want to get on board. Doesn't matter how you approach it. You take one step at a time toward a new, happier life. I can't guarantee you'll be fine in the end. Hubby also has to decide to get unstuck from the past, and decide how his future with you should look. Is he ready to learn how to cherish you? Is he ready to learn how your feminine brain works? Does he want to be able to bare the burden when you can't? Can he find it within himself to let you in and trust you with his deepest fears when they arise?

If the answer is "no" then put your marriage out of its misery.

I probably sound harsh. Sorry. You just need that kind of help.

[synirr]

DADT, I like you more and more all the time!

I haven't had much to add so I've just been watching the show, but I wanted to say that DADT is absolutely right... you can have a HOT, interesting sex life with your partner without involving other people, all it takes is a little effort and creativity! Having sex with someone else is a cheap and easy way to get that thrill, but you could be trying something new with your partner while strengthening your trust and your relationship at the same time instead.

[Smile4Me]

Wow Dadt, somehow I feel like a hit a nerve with my last reply, LOL. It's a good thing I'm thick-skinned and willing to accept constructive criticism.

After re-reading my replies, I did notice that some of my reasoning surrounding the swinging topic made it sound like I'd rather continue "the recreational fucking" than work at awakening his sexual interest again. Just to clarify, that's not the situation at all. Like I said earlier on, I would LOVE for it to be just me and him again. Aside from his psychological malfunctions (for lack of better terms) my SO is a bored soul. He does not have a romantic/sensual bone in his body. I (and I accentuate the I) have tried everything my imagination can generate to see what makes him tick.

The thing with him is, as soon as he tries it and likes it, he's ready to move on to something new almost instantaneously. He gets a thrill from the "taboo"...which I think is why he is so set on swinging. Tying me up or vice versa, power exchange, erotic massage, mutual masturbation, watching each other masturbate, "rough" sex...none of it sustains his interest for more than a single sack session. I'll bet there is nothing in your distinguished list of "spicing things up with your spouse" that we haven't tried or continue to do as a part of our once every two week escapade. Nothing except for changing the face and body of the person he's with, watching me with another woman (or man), or being with another man's wife in front of the guy does it for him. He gets OFF on feeling like he's doing something wrong. I say it again, he is sexually spoiled. He still has that 18yr old mentality; fuck as many women as he can and experience it all. He doesn't have to work for it, because all of his fantasies and desires have been served to him on a silver fucking platter. I didn't coin the term "married sex." He did. He is completely unsatisfied unless he is tasting the rainbow. If there was no job issues, I fear THAT would STILL be our reality. If living like a free agent is the ONLY thing that makes him happy, who am I to say "no, let's not do that anymore"

You sense exhaustion for a reason, I am TIRED of feeling like I have to trade bodies with someone just to get my man to want me. I'm TIRED of talking to a cold wall of a human being every day at 530 on the dot. Think of it in terms of empty nesters. You raised your kids, did the best you could, and now it's time to take care of you. I gave him sexual freedom and freedom from being exclusive to one sexual partner (what many husbands would kill for), and did my best to ensure his needs were taken care of. Now I just want someone to focus on ME a little. I want him to WANT to make ME HAPPY. As I have him. Is that completely selfish? Yes. BUT I devote a lot of time to his happiness, and continue to expect nothing in return except love (good thing, cuz I'd be SOL otherwise). If he were to demonstrate the same amount of interest in satisfying me as I do him, I betcha I would be a happy gal.

Ahhhh jeezz the plot only thickens.

[DADT]

Wow Dadt, somehow I feel like a hit a nerve with my last reply, LOL. It's a good thing I'm thick-skinned and willing to accept constructive criticism.

After re-reading my replies, I did notice that some of my reasoning surrounding the swinging topic made it sound like I'd rather continue "the recreational fucking" than work at awakening his sexual interest again. Just to clarify, that's not the situation at all. Like I said earlier on, I would LOVE for it to be just me and him again. Aside from his psychological malfunctions (for lack of better terms) my SO is a bored soul. He does not have a romantic/sensual bone in his body. I (and I accentuate the I) have tried everything my imagination can generate to see what makes him tick.

The thing with him is, as soon as he tries it and likes it, he's ready to move on to something new almost instantaneously. He gets a thrill from the "taboo"...which I think is why he is so set on swinging. Tying me up or vice versa, power exchange, erotic massage, mutual masturbation, watching each other masturbate, "rough" sex...none of it sustains his interest for more than a single sack session. I'll bet there is nothing in your distinguished list of "spicing things up with your spouse" that we haven't tried or continue to do as a part of our once every two week escapade. Nothing except for changing the face and body of the person he's with, watching me with another woman (or man), or being with another man's wife in front of the guy does it for him. He gets OFF on feeling like he's doing something wrong. I say it again, he is sexually spoiled. He still has that 18yr old mentality; fuck as many women as he can and experience it all. He doesn't have to work for it, because all of his fantasies and desires have been served to him on a silver fucking platter. I didn't coin the term "married sex." He did. He is completely unsatisfied unless he is tasting the rainbow. If there was no job issues, I fear THAT would STILL be our reality. If living like a free agent is the ONLY thing that makes him happy, who am I to say "no, let's not do that anymore"

You sense exhaustion for a reason, I am TIRED of feeling like I have to trade bodies with someone just to get my man to want me. I'm TIRED of talking to a cold wall of a human being every day at 530 on the dot. Think of it in terms of empty nesters. You raised your kids, did the best you could, and now it's time to take care of you. I gave him sexual freedom and freedom from being exclusive to one sexual partner (what many husbands would kill for), and did my best to ensure his needs were taken care of. Now I just want someone to focus on ME a little. I want him to WANT to make ME HAPPY. As I have him. Is that completely selfish? Yes. BUT I devote a lot of time to his happiness, and continue to expect nothing in return except love (good thing, cuz I'd be SOL otherwise). If he were to demonstrate the same amount of interest in satisfying me as I do him, I betcha I would be a happy gal.

Ahhhh jeezz the plot only thickens.

Make sure your second husband is a fully formed human being. But wait a few years so that your anger can evaporate, and you can rebuild your self-esteem. I agree. You've tried very hard. He sounds like a thrill addict. That cannot be easy to live with. And perhaps you should no longer try.

[Smile4Me]

OK...what is with the sarcastic pessimism? I admit, my point of view is probably skewed by some resentful feelings, but why all the reference to divorce. You really think swinging is that much of a distraction from our emotional and physical relationship? If so, by all means enlighten me.

[Smile4Me]

Well, I don't believe you can regain that if you continue to swing because it really is going to confuse the sexual messages you send yourselves and each other. How do you convince yourselves that sex with each other is something special, to be cherished and nurtured, and then tell yourself that the recreational fucking you do with other people is no biggy. You are both asking your emotional brains to do a lot of acrobatics when you really need your focus to be on each other. OK I think I've flogged that dead horse enough.

Ok, so I read back over some of your information, and this is the part that I don't understand. I don't see any emotional stress from swinging---unless I'm just young and dumb and don't see the big picture.

[DADT]

OK...what is with the sarcastic pessimism? I admit, my point of view is probably skewed by some resentful feelings, but why all the reference to divorce. You really think swinging is that much of a distraction from our emotional and physical relationship? If so, by all means enlighten me.

I'm not being sarcastic. You have painted a bleak picture. Maybe you exaggerated. I can't tell from here. But taking your situation on face value, based on what you said, I can't see what you are getting out of the relationship.

What is sex supposed to be? Ideally an expression of love, closeness, belonging to each other. Right? Sure when you are a kid you just want your jollies. But once you become a married adult, sex becomes different. Or at least it should do. Otherwise why get married?

Swinging isn't causing the empty place in your soul. But it isn't filling it either. Its really just a symptom.

Anyway, Smiley, all I meant to do was to offer some considered thoughts based on some experience.

Good luck whatever happens.

[lil_librarian]

I'm not being sarcastic. You have painted a bleak picture. Maybe you exaggerated. I can't tell from here. But taking your situation on face value, based on what you said, I can't see what you are getting out of the relationship.

What is sex supposed to be? Ideally an expression of love, closeness, belonging to each other. Right? Sure when you are a kid you just want your jollies. But once you become a married adult, sex becomes different. Or at least it should do. Otherwise why get married?

Swinging isn't causing the empty place in your soul. But it isn't filling it either. Its really just a symptom.

Anyway, Smiley, all I meant to do was to offer some considered thoughts based on some experience.

Good luck whatever happens.

Sam, I will speak like a big sis here:

If the intimate part of a relationship was like a meal: Foreplay(with each other) is the appetizer, Sex (with each other) is the Main Course, Flirting (harmlessly with other people) is the dessert and Sex ( with someone other than who you are married to) is the After Dinner Mint. As in MOST meals, the after dinner mint is OPTIONAL and NOT needed to satisfy hunger. Think about how this relates to your relationship......