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There is some justice in the world, though this was for a couple of steps beyond whistling and hooting. This was in the news probably close to 20 years ago. A pick-up truck passenger opened and hung out the door to slap a woman jogger on the butt as the truck drove by. He slipped and fell out, got run over by the back wheels and killed. R.I.P.

With both those cases, things just weren't meant to be. In the first one, it was right in front of me and I didn't want to see it. Finally I woke up and realized it, lost interest in the girl, let things fizzle, and that was that. In the second, I don't know that having said "love you" would have changed anything. Maybe, but the way things played out I don't think so and don't regret not saying it. "[her] No, we can't get together this weekend; I'm going to Phoenix." "[me] Oh? Mini-vacation?" "[her] No, a job interview." Ouch . . . NEXT! (not quite; took me a long time to fully get over her) Plus she liked the southwest, and had taken a vacation to Arizona a couple of months earlier with a girl friend of hers. Her trip photos had shots of her (my girlfriend), but not one of her girl friend, so I wonder if the girl friend wasn't really a boyfriend that she had waiting in the wings out there. Either way, she was wanting to move out there, and I was not part of the plans. I had some crazy notions of following her out there, coming back if things didn't work out. Nobody I talked to thought it was a swell idea, and I came to realize I was being foolish. "We" wasn't meant to be. No regrets (in these two particular situations). Besides, I'm much more comfortable farting, belching, picking my nose and coughing flem balls across the room around my wife then I probably ever would have been with that girlfriend.

It got late and we were both way too beat. It never bothered us that we didn't doink on that particular night.

Cut the grass. In a parade on Monday. Visit granny in the hostable (kids' word for the place). Mebbe visit friends tomorrow night for gristle (supper).

Meeting Mother Fist and her five daughters or Mary Palm and her five sisters. Flying solo. Flog the log. Playing with the meat puppet. Pocket pool. Wax on/wax off (courtesy of The Karate Kid movie) Beat off, jerk off, jack off, wack off, stroke off

There's a Seinfeld episode where George decides to tell his girlfriend those words. Jerry warns him that if he doesn't get an "I love you" back, it's a bad thing. (see http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheFacePainter.html) George goes ahead with it; the girlfriend responds with, "I'm hungry, Let's get something to eat." Thinking this relationship is essentially over now, George later learns the girlfriend is part deaf. He tries again on a later date. This time she responds with, "Yeah, I know. I heard you the first time." ------------------------------- To me, those words are kinda heavy duty. Before my wife, I would say I was good and in-love twice before; but I would not say those words, though like George, I wanted to at times. Why not? Shyness. Didn't know if the girl felt that way about me. And didn't want to scare her away before she got to feeling that way about me. Even with my wife, it was a long time before I said it, and she said it first. And she said she had wanted to say it for a long time. ------------------------------- When I talk to my wife on the phone, I end with a quick, muttered, "Love you." It is now habbit, to the point that I've almost said it to other people on the phone. Including her girl friends, and male and female co-workers of mine. I'd be pretty embarrassed if it happened for real.

All the required tests and notifications and okeedokes were done at the time of the surgery. This was 6 or 7 years ago. And per the urologist/surgeon's recommendation, I've gotten the once a year test to make sure I'm still "fixed" (or broken?) and have always gotten the all-clear. The issue with the test is mostly a matter of convenience. If I could do it at home at my leasure and spend 5 or 10 minutes doing it, I'd avoid a bunch of running around to have the local lab do it. I just wondered how involved the test is, whether any special sample preparation is needed, and that sort of thing. I have seen microscopes for a couple of hundred bucks; maybe they are junk, but that's what I had in mind. Plus the kids could use it to look at blood and hair and bugs and pond scum and other cool stuff. But I would not do this if I had to spend $1000 on a scope. I'm not that worried about reversal; just doing what the surgeon recommended. It's a reasonable precaution to take. (I haven't crashed a car in over 300,000 miles of driving, but I still wear a seat belt.) ------------------------------------- I did a little more web searching, and found <www.fertilityformen.com> which has some supplies and info for home testing. I think I found this site before, but I either missed what they had, or they've updated their site with more info. Thanks.

The doc that did the surgery could do the paperwork, but I'd still have to go to the same lab. That's how it worked with the post-surgery tests. But they don't seem to want to even do the paperwork, making a point of encouraging me to go to my regular doc for that. I don't know that I'm paranoid, just trying to follow the doc's recommendation. He had said reversal could happen even years down the road. Just an optical microscope, not an electron type; that would be way over my budget. STDs aren't a concern, and I hate condoms. Thanks.

Anyone know how to go about doing your own semen analysis to make sure there are no spermies swimming around? From internet searches, it seems a 4-500 power microscope would do, but I haven't found too much other info. Do you just get a decent microscope and look at a random drop of semen? Do you need any staining solutions (no Monica Lewinsky jokes, please) or fancy techniques? The reason I ask is I had a vasectomy several years ago. The doc said statistacally there was a one in 4,000 chance that it would reverse on its own, and that I should have a semen analysis done once a year to make sure I was still infertile. Doing that is not a big deal, but it is a bit of a pain. Gotta call the doc (regular, not the urologist), explain (each time) to the phone answerer what I need and why; go get the paperwork; find a specimen cup that for some reason, regular drug stores don't seem to sell; get the sample to the one lab available in the area within some time limit (which I forget); etc. Then the lab is always jammed with people in the waiting room, and grouchy sour grumps for worker bees. I have no confidence that they get to my sample in any kind of timely fashion, and so I question the test's validity. Anyhow, am thinking of picking up a decent microscope to check me myself. Plus the kids could use the scope; the ones at the toy store are total junk. Thanks for any info.

. . . good thing I didn't step in it!

Yes, we went to see her friend the jeweler and picked out a ring and a rock to stick in it and a couple of wedding bands with a matt finish that we liked. (After we got married, everything those bands touched left a scratch; the matt finish was shot after I think only two weeks. Oh, well . . . ) Don't remeber if the groundhog saw sun or shadow or what, but he got his excercise one way or another . . .

Not to go off topic here, but it is possible to be too drunk to remember. Happened to me 3 times back in college days. I didn't pass out, but did black out. It was very disconcerting, especially the first time, to have people the next day telling me about my antics and about putting me to bed. And without any recollection at all past a certain point in the evening. I don't recommend it. But it is a falling-down drunk, barely able to stand up, takes literally 5 or 10 minutes to get back up when you do fall down, etc. Doesn't sound like the fine young gentleman in this story was anywhere near that drunk.

For me, it was at 21, in college. I was becoming increasingly uneasy, as it seemed everyone around me had long since done it, but not me. And I was (and am) pretty introverted, and never did have the knack for picking up chicks. Although there were some smooching and groping encounters with a few girls here and there, nothing went very far. On one particular night I had to blow off some steam and got bombed. Eventually everyone else had gone off to bed, and I found myself alone on a couch with a girl, clipping her finger nails, and then on to smooching. I invited her into my room, and was surprised at how willingly she accepted. So we smooched and foreplayed and this and that, but because I was still pretty bombed, and maybe a little nervous, Mr. Happy would not perform. Eventually the girl left. I was pretty mad at myself, having this naked girl on my bed and blowing the opportunity. We got together a few days later and did it. It was OK and all, but it did not give me any sensation of, "Now I'm a MAN! YEAH!" It was more of relief that I could check that activity off my to-do list and feel less of an oddball. She at one point said she was surprised to learn I was a virgin, since during the drunken encounter I seemed to be a good kisser and seemed to know what I was doing with the foreplay.

So how is our pal Melissa Drexler (aka the "Prom Mom") doing these days? After concealing her pregnancy and giving birth in the bathroom at her high school prom, she wrapped the baby up in plastic bags and threw him in the trash. Then went back out to dance and enjoy the prom. She pleaded guilty to manslaughter (to avoid a trial with murder being the charge), and got out on parole after 3 years.

Hmmm, used to do that all the time as a teenager. Still do to some extent, though not really pumping away and nothing close to the point of ejaculating. Pardon me for being a little skeptical on that one.

Not personally. But there was a move, I love you to Death, based on a true tale, of a wife who tried to murder her cheating, womanizing husband. I saw the real-life husband and wife on some talk show. They seemed quite lovey-dovey, and said that the whole experience had brought them closer together. So I guess it's possible? Of course, no idea if these two are still together.

I forget exactly, but I think I was planning to get a ring from a jeweler friend of my wife's, but since I didn't know her, and not comfortable with people I don't know, and not too sure what to pick out (she told me what she wanted, but I don't know nuttin' about rings or rocks or jewelry), I had been putting this off. We'd been dating a while and were planning to move in together, and I figured the time had come. So after waking up one morning and before getting up, I asked her, "If I asked you to marry me but I didn't have a rock yet, would you be mad?" She said, "No." Then I said, "OK, wanna get married?" or something like that. And even after asking the first question, the second one still caught her off guard. It turned out that it was Groundhog Day, so easy to remember the date.

Going thru your old posts, you've been trying to work things out for a year and a half with, it seems, no real improvement. Your earlier posts indicated she was yakking a lot on the phone with a fellow from work (and lying about it), and had been seen smooching with him; some speculated that there was likely more going on with this fellow than just yakking and smooching. You say here that she cheated twice early in your marrage. Albert Einstein said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Granted, I am not in your shoes, I can only go by what is written here, two sides to every story (sometimes more), I can be kinda negative, and all that good stuff. But it seems to me that you have beaten this dead horse about all that it can be beaten; there is nothing more to be gained. The next issue would be, what is in the best interest of your kids? Is it worth staying under the same roof as the Mrs. for the kids' sake, till they are older and off on their own? Or go your own way and spend time with the kids as best you can? One other comment: in your first post, you had said: Has she ever given you credit/acknowledgement for being the main bread winner, for busting your tail year after year to bring home a pay check to put food on the table and a roof over your family's heads?

My cats do go ape over tuna. One loves the spinning chair. Not cat related, but more on engineers:

Every one and every situation is at least a little different. Generally, I would agree that if a fellow dates a gal a couple of times, then gets her bombed and has his way with her, sure, he's a bum. But if the two of you are already married and getting along fine, I can't see a big deal with what you suggest. I certainly do not equate it with "sleeping with a passed out chick." If you suggested to my wife that it was wrong for me to take advangage of her drunken horniness, she'd furrow up her brow and squint a bit, and say "Why?" (I just asked her and that's what she did.) (And neither of us drinks much, so alcoholism is not a factor in this case.) Alcohol may make the arm twisting easier, but unless the guy is really plowed, it's not gonna make him do something he would be totally against if he was sober.

"Paying for my meal/movie/whatever without offering first. . . ." (I dunno how to work the quote highlighting stuff) Interesting. I have always been a "the-guy-pays" guy, though not as adamant about it as some of the other posters. Only once did I have a date (on the second date, out to dinner), where the girl said "this time it's my turn to pay." I hesitated, debating in my head whether to insist I pay or let her pay, and in the end I said "OK." Then she said, "Right answer." Anyway, I wonder how much of that is a generational thing, versus a personal preference thing. The other "the-guy-always-pays" posters are closer to my age (40's) and beyond.

What do the hotel and motel operators do? They must have some way to clean up the goo people leave in their beds.

Agreed; gotta have trust. I have found my wife lying from time to time, mostly minor stuff. But even with little stuff it does erode trust, and then that makes you wonder if she is on the level with more important things, and it takes a while to build that trust back. If your girl has lied to the point you've broken off engagement, then I'd tend to think it is not minor stuff. Marriage ain't always a picnic as it is, and if you don't have trust, I think you'll be a lot more miserable married than you are now. If you aren't able to work things out, at least your current misery will fade with time, and strengthen you in the end. And you may well one day look back and think, "what a dope I was for even thinking about staying with her." But a marriage without trust will eat and beat you down for a long time. Another thought: Why is she lying? Is it just easier than dealing with your stubbornness on some issue (probably what was behind most of my wife's lies; I can be pretty stubborn about certain things [but so can she] ) ? Or are there more malevolent reasons?

My wife and I went on a rare "date" recently; found a kid sitter for the little ones and went out to a new restaurant in town. We had to stop at a store first, and when getting back in the car, I unlocked my wife's door and held it open for her. Then she just sat there, and didn't reach over to unlock my door. (Most of my cars have always been the manual locks, crank-windows variety.) After I got in, I said, "It's a good thing we're married, 'cause if we were just dating, I'd kick you to the curb for that." We laughed, but back in the dating days, it would irk me if a date just sat there like a princess and didn't even give a thought to unlocking my side of the car. It only happend with a couple of girls, but it became a pet peeve anyway. Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to see what others here had in the way of small-potatoes things that if their date did or didn't do, it would earn the date a quick "Hasta la vista, Baby" and a boot in the butt.

I only shaved once, which was for a vasectomy. I did not like the feeling of the rubbing of the scrotum inside my drawers. Couldn't wait till it grew back. Maybe the wife would prefer it shaved, but she ain't complainin' out loud, so I'm keeping my furry protection.