Opinions Needed

[rokhopa]

I have searched the forums and have not found an answer to what is bugging me. I hope I can get some help.

Background. My husband and I have been married for 17 years with 2 kids (10 & 12) and have been having sex for 20 years. I am very very very open about trying new things and strongly believe that if it feels good it is good. My husband is a very sexual person and some may consider him kinky in what he likes and what he is interested in experimenting with personally I think it is great and encourage him to continue growing in that area.

Problem. After 20 years of having sex he still needs me to tell him how to please me........everytime. Is it too much to ask that he remembers how I like to be touch and the general lay of land so to speak. I am very fortunate that I can reach orgasm (after orgasm) very easily if you are touching the right buttons. Unfortunately I am not the most patient person. So here is what has been happening to us way to frequently.

We flirt and warm up with some porn/erotic stories (love literotica) and then I have to initiate (yes every freaking time) the foreplay and touching. Eventually he will take the lead (kind of) and start suckling my breasts in a manner that is more annoying than erotic so I urge him to suck a little harder which leads to him sucking harder and harder and harder with each suck. No matter how many times/ways I tell him that he should suck at a level for a bit then get a bit harder for another bit etc. Well he hasn't yet gotten that down. Next we progress to oral sex and he goes down on me and either attacks my clit or spends forever licking my outer lips (which I have explained to him have almost no feeling). I have given him so many lessons on what I like he doesn't remember. I try nudging him to a better place and he will immediately jump back to where he was. I try saying higher, faster, slower whatever I need and he doesn't hear. He pays no attention to my body language until finally I toss his head aside and get the job done myself with either a vibe or fingers. Once I come I will give him head(or I used to but I have not been feeling very generous lately) to make sure he is good and ready to penetrate at which point he jumps in slams about for a bit and then he is done and I am not so I am again left to do the job on my own.

The other night as we were going through our paces I got so frustrated that I started a fight. Yeah I know bad move but geeeez there is only so much I can take. I honestly feel that he totally needs to step up and learn. I do so much for him sexually (even he admits I go above and beyond) why can't he try to improve his game. At this point I don't even want him to touch me anymore. I am thoroughly disgusted with his selfish behavior and don't know what more I can do. Am I justified in feeling disappointed? Am I asking too much that he care enough to remember what I like?

[rokhopa]

Thanks for your reply. We have actually had that conversation at least 4 times in the last two years. The last time being this past October. He will fight it for a day or so then eventually he will break down and admit he isn't pulling his weight. He will then promise me that he will make a greater effort and within a week it is again forgotten. He says he will do research online and then he doesn't. I know this because I unashamedly check his browser history and google search history every couple weeks to check.

I have lost hope to be honest and life is miserable without hope. I will check out the book you recommend but I highly doubt he will read it. I often send him interesting articles, websites that go ignored or if not ignored at least avoid discussing them with me. I wish I knew what to do next. At the moment the only realistic option for me is accept my sex life as is but that is a mighty bitter pill to swallow.

[thurisas]

So maybe its time you stop giving him the prize before he does it the right way. I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is obvious that he isn't listening and it is obvious he knows he just has to bide his time before things can get back to "normal". Be a teacher. That means that until he earns the grade, he doesn't get rewarded for it. As it is right now you're giving him an A+ for D- work.

Here are a couple of rules for you to follow.

1. If he doesn't listen, there is no point in continuing the lesson. Stop your session.

2. If he doesn't do the work to your satisfaction, start from scratch and have him do it again until he gets it right.

3. If he does as you want you need to find a way to reward him.

4. If he's doing the things you want without your asking, find a way to celebrate.

5. Positive reinforcement works better than negative.

6. Accusations cause defensiveness.

Randy.

[jhard]

I have searched the forums and have not found an answer to what is bugging me. I hope I can get some help.

Background. My husband and I have been married for 17 years with 2 kids (10 & 12) and have been having sex for 20 years. I am very very very open about trying new things and strongly believe that if it feels good it is good. My husband is a very sexual person and some may consider him kinky in what he likes and what he is interested in experimenting with personally I think it is great and encourage him to continue growing in that area.

Problem. After 20 years of having sex he still needs me to tell him how to please me........everytime. Is it too much to ask that he remembers how I like to be touch and the general lay of land so to speak. I am very fortunate that I can reach orgasm (after orgasm) very easily if you are touching the right buttons. Unfortunately I am not the most patient person. So here is what has been happening to us way to frequently.

We flirt and warm up with some porn/erotic stories (love literotica) and then I have to initiate (yes every freaking time) the foreplay and touching. Eventually he will take the lead (kind of) and start suckling my breasts in a manner that is more annoying than erotic so I urge him to suck a little harder which leads to him sucking harder and harder and harder with each suck. No matter how many times/ways I tell him that he should suck at a level for a bit then get a bit harder for another bit etc. Well he hasn't yet gotten that down. Next we progress to oral sex and he goes down on me and either attacks my clit or spends forever licking my outer lips (which I have explained to him have almost no feeling). I have given him so many lessons on what I like he doesn't remember. I try nudging him to a better place and he will immediately jump back to where he was. I try saying higher, faster, slower whatever I need and he doesn't hear. He pays no attention to my body language until finally I toss his head aside and get the job done myself with either a vibe or fingers. Once I come I will give him head(or I used to but I have not been feeling very generous lately) to make sure he is good and ready to penetrate at which point he jumps in slams about for a bit and then he is done and I am not so I am again left to do the job on my own.

The other night as we were going through our paces I got so frustrated that I started a fight. Yeah I know bad move but geeeez there is only so much I can take. I honestly feel that he totally needs to step up and learn. I do so much for him sexually (even he admits I go above and beyond) why can't he try to improve his game. At this point I don't even want him to touch me anymore. I am thoroughly disgusted with his selfish behavior and don't know what more I can do. Am I justified in feeling disappointed? Am I asking too much that he care enough to remember what I like?

Hi Rokhopa,

You have a loaded post and I can only give you my perspective. First off, a man has a limited blood supply and it is usually not enough to run both the brain and an erect penis. Personally, I consider it a big turn on to be told what to do...but my wife is not that open yet (perhaps does'nt really know what she wants me to do...yet). You feel the way you feel and I do not know that it has to be justified. I understand very well being frustrated. I would suggest talking about it outside of the bedroom. I think that a good heart to heart talk about how you feel will go the furthest for you. The sooner you talk about it the better, I have a tendency to postpone these kind of talks myself and they never get better on thier own.

jhard

ps I made this post earlier today but due to server problems could not post it until now, i think iha covered a bunch of this...communication really is vital

[ToyQueen]

I think Thurisas is right on here. As it stands now, you are allowing him to continue to act this way. Therefore, he has no reason to change.

[rokhopa]

Thanks for the replies it has helped me see things more clearly. Sunday was the fight. Monday he would barely look at me and we only talked when absolutely necessary. Tuesday he is acting as though it never happened and everything is fine. I know I need to talk with him again but I still need to release some anger and find words he can hear. He gets so defensive that it is very hard to talk and have him hear me.

Jhard I can see how some people like to be told what to do my husband on the other hand hates being told what to do and in our every day lives I must go to the extreme of never telling him what to do. Not even with something relating to the kids, I have to very carefully find a way suggesting that something needs to be done and perhaps that he is the appropriate person to do it. If I forget this and tell him to do something he will do the opposite of what I wanted. So I have learned to never tell him what to do.

I am just tired of forever being the teacher/leader and would really like to be with someone who can take the lead and make me the center of attention. Not all the time but ya know just once or twice would be nice.

Ugh I hate how flipping whiny I sound but it has gotten really old.

[Tyger]

Sorry for the long post...egad, have I taken you-know-who's place as the resident 'long-poster'? I hope not...someone kick me!

This statement made me laugh so hard!! Your answer was very on-target, so you're fine darlin'! Great advise!

[jhard]

Thanks for the replies it has helped me see things more clearly. Sunday was the fight. Monday he would barely look at me and we only talked when absolutely necessary. Tuesday he is acting as though it never happened and everything is fine. I know I need to talk with him again but I still need to release some anger and find words he can hear. He gets so defensive that it is very hard to talk and have him hear me.

Jhard I can see how some people like to be told what to do my husband on the other hand hates being told what to do and in our every day lives I must go to the extreme of never telling him what to do. Not even with something relating to the kids, I have to very carefully find a way suggesting that something needs to be done and perhaps that he is the appropriate person to do it. If I forget this and tell him to do something he will do the opposite of what I wanted. So I have learned to never tell him what to do.

I am just tired of forever being the teacher/leader and would really like to be with someone who can take the lead and make me the center of attention. Not all the time but ya know just once or twice would be nice.

Ugh I hate how flipping whiny I sound but it has gotten really old.

Rokhopa,

Since I dont know your husband I dont want to start making assumptions and add more fuel to the fire. When I married my wife i saw my role as doing everything in my power to make her and us happy. It may seem old fashioned, but i am the leader in my house...this means responsibility to those around me. I figure that if those around me are happy that chances are really good that i will be even happier.

Maybe you should flat out ask him if he cares about your happiness. Tell him to be a leader in the home and that that means putting himself last and everybody else ahead of him/his needs. Thats what a man is, thats what a man does. Unfortunately there are a lot of boys out there playing a mans role.

enough of my ideas,

wish you all the best,

jhard

[Mikayla1]

I think all the posters are right on target here.

I had a very similar relationship with my hubby in the beginning. I always had to lead him, tell him, show him. In the beginning he was very resentful of me trying to tell him what I liked. He sort of acted like a 'dog being scolded' with his penis between his legs. The truth was, I was used to being a submissive (had a long relationship with a very dominant man who always took control) and I was not used to a man who was much more timid about what he wanted and acknowledging what I wanted.

I have always had the firm belief that we only live once and we have to make the absolute most of our relationships. While I was not willing to divorce my hubby because he was shy or didn't want to take the lead, I was getting very, very frustrated. In part, that was what brought me here. I decided that I had to have one of those 'talks' as Iha suggested and tell him what I needed to tell him and see where things would progress.

What happened was I told him that I wanted him to be pleasured more than any other woman had ever pleasured him. I told him that I was his sexual plaything. I asked him why he had such a difficult time taking the lead in bed. He told me that where he came from (southern states) the girls were very timid and if he showed any aggression or whatever in bed that they acted funny. When he came to Chicago and met some Chicago women he said it was a whole different world. Then I was even more sexually free than them, so he didn't quite know how to deal with me.

So, we came to a compromise where he would at least try to initiate, lead and pleasure me - just me - and then the next night I would pleasure him - just him. This allowed him to get out of the routine of: kissing, touching, oral, fucking. Our sex was usually hot - but it was very routine and I always felt like I was stiffling the inner sex goddess in myself. I love to be submissive (and it sounds like you sort of want to be too) so I basically taught my hubby how to pleasure me for pleasure's sake -not as a precursor to sex for him.

Now things are wonderful - he is always very open to hearing what I like and what I want to try. He is wonderfully receptive to new things, he has taken time to research and look online for things that he wants to try. It is wondeful. The difference between my hubby and yours is he was interested in pleasing me. Is your hubby interested in pleasing you? That is the real question here. Sex is not one-sided - it is definitely playing with each other, acknowledgement of the other person's desires, wants and needs. It is a process of connection. You have to try to get that connection back with him.

[rokhopa]

Your last statements about having to 'be very careful' about how you talk to him is very telling...you are walking around on eggshells all the time, right?

We do the 'eggshell' walk because we have decided that it is better to do this to 'keep the peace'...when the peace is not 'kept', we FEAR that if we speak up about a wrong, or state our own opinion, the person we love will become angry and leave us. Well, that is true, they might leave...but is that really worse than the misery we are choosing to live with?

In truth, if the relationship is fundamentally sound, it can take you 'differentiating'.

This is the heart of 'differentiation'...stop walking on eggshells.

I wouldn't say I walk on eggshells all the time, I am pretty outspoken most of the time his feelings be damned. It is really only on sexual issues that I have to walk on eggshells or he regresses his shy awkward adolescent stage.

I have no fear of him leaving me.

[rokhopa]

Rokhopa,

Since I dont know your husband I dont want to start making assumptions and add more fuel to the fire. When I married my wife i saw my role as doing everything in my power to make her and us happy. It may seem old fashioned, but i am the leader in my house...this means responsibility to those around me. I figure that if those around me are happy that chances are really good that i will be even happier.

Maybe you should flat out ask him if he cares about your happiness. Tell him to be a leader in the home and that that means putting himself last and everybody else ahead of him/his needs. Thats what a man is, thats what a man does. Unfortunately there are a lot of boys out there playing a mans role.

enough of my ideas,

wish you all the best,

jhard

See that is my role, I am the one concerned about everyone elses happiness and comfort. I always put everyone else before myself to an extreme I am afraid. I will often go without even when it isn't necessary. I am working on that issue but have had little success. I honestly don't think my husband sees what a man's role is, his dad was not much of a role model and he has never bothered to try and find one.

Thanks for your support.

[pappyld04]

I wouldn't say I walk on eggshells all the time, I am pretty outspoken most of the time his feelings be damned. It is really only on sexual issues that I have to walk on eggshells or he regresses his shy awkward adolescent stage.

I have no fear of him leaving me.

Right on rokhopa. Dam his feelings. He's not thought abotu yours for quite some time. Tell him to "put out and quit putting on"!

[pappyld04]

See that is my role, I am the one concerned about everyone elses happiness and comfort. I always put everyone else before myself to an extreme I am afraid. I will often go without even when it isn't necessary. I am working on that issue but have had little success. I honestly don't think my husband sees what a man's role is, his dad was not much of a role model and he has never bothered to try and find one.

Thanks for your support.

I've seen my dad maybe 3-4 times since they divorced when I was 18 months old. I have never considered him to be a person I would base my life on. I learned my ethics, morals and such from wherever I could get them. He does need to step up to the plate!

[rokhopa]

I think all the posters are right on target here.

I had a very similar relationship with my hubby in the beginning. I always had to lead him, tell him, show him. In the beginning he was very resentful of me trying to tell him what I liked. He sort of acted like a 'dog being scolded' with his penis between his legs. The truth was, I was used to being a submissive (had a long relationship with a very dominant man who always took control) and I was not used to a man who was much more timid about what he wanted and acknowledging what I wanted.

I have always had the firm belief that we only live once and we have to make the absolute most of our relationships. While I was not willing to divorce my hubby because he was shy or didn't want to take the lead, I was getting very, very frustrated. In part, that was what brought me here. I decided that I had to have one of those 'talks' as Iha suggested and tell him what I needed to tell him and see where things would progress.

What happened was I told him that I wanted him to be pleasured more than any other woman had ever pleasured him. I told him that I was his sexual plaything. I asked him why he had such a difficult time taking the lead in bed. He told me that where he came from (southern states) the girls were very timid and if he showed any aggression or whatever in bed that they acted funny. When he came to Chicago and met some Chicago women he said it was a whole different world. Then I was even more sexually free than them, so he didn't quite know how to deal with me.

So, we came to a compromise where he would at least try to initiate, lead and pleasure me - just me - and then the next night I would pleasure him - just him. This allowed him to get out of the routine of: kissing, touching, oral, fucking. Our sex was usually hot - but it was very routine and I always felt like I was stiffling the inner sex goddess in myself. I love to be submissive (and it sounds like you sort of want to be too) so I basically taught my hubby how to pleasure me for pleasure's sake -not as a precursor to sex for him.

Now things are wonderful - he is always very open to hearing what I like and what I want to try. He is wonderfully receptive to new things, he has taken time to research and look online for things that he wants to try. It is wondeful. The difference between my hubby and yours is he was interested in pleasing me. Is your hubby interested in pleasing you? That is the real question here. Sex is not one-sided - it is definitely playing with each other, acknowledgement of the other person's desires, wants and needs. It is a process of connection. You have to try to get that connection back with him.

Yes we sound very similar in as divorce just isn't in my vocabulary. I do love him and honestly cannot even imagine my life without him. He has always been my best friend which makes this all the harder to resolve. My husband is very inexperienced in fact and am his first and only (so far). He was painfully shy and awkward as a teenager. We are high school sweethearts although I was an early bloomer who had a bit of fun before settling down with him.

As I have said I have had many many talks with him in the last 20 years. In fact I have been having it about every 6 months for the last few years and it is always the same story. At first denial then he will break down and admit that he isn't doing all that he could and finally he will promise on a stack of bibles that he will change no matter how hard it may be because I am worth it. Within a few days of his uttering those vows (which is what he proclaims they are) he forgets/avoids/ignores what he promised until eventually my fuse blows again. Now I give him plenty of warnings that I am feeling neglected and I am not talking subtle hints either. I learned long ago that subtle doesn't work.

So here I am again promising myself that I won't fall for empty promises again. My plan is to take care of my own desires as they arise and if he is interested than he is going to have lead the way. It will mean his losing of some special bonus that I have always given him and he will be angry about that but I really need to take care of me. Otherwise our relationship will only continue down an unhealthy (for me) path.

Thank you all for understanding and support. This is such a great community to be able to share these difficult topics with and I am so appreciative to all of your kind words.

[rokhopa]

I've seen my dad maybe 3-4 times since they divorced when I was 18 months old. I have never considered him to be a person I would base my life on. I learned my ethics, morals and such from wherever I could get them. He does need to step up to the plate!

Thanks he really does need to man up to put it bluntly. In all other aspects of our lives is a moral responsible professional trustworthy man. A bit selfish perhaps but a good person. Since I have had to take my pleasure into my own hands I think it is high time he do the same. Now if he wants to take the lead and be the aggressor than by all means I will follow but my leading days are over. Thanks

[pappyld04]

RIGHT ON!

[chloegirl]

Ah Rokhopa, so many of us can relate to that. It's really sad how some of them just don't have a clue and can get lost in such a small area. What do we have to do? draw an "X" on it with a Sharpie? And the predictability of it all was getting to the point that I could tell you each move, how much time, and how many strokes till he was done, leaving me high and dry while he was getting treated like a freakin' sultan or something. I went thru this for years and like you just let it go to keep the peace, but as time goes on the frustration and anger builds up and will affect your whole relationship. I finally just laid it on the line that I was not going to live like that anymore and if he didn't care enough to "tend the field properly" I was gonna find someone else who would. I guess he realized I meant it because he has really changed his ways and things are much better now. I had to let go of my anger about it and stop blaming him....after all, I was the fool who allowed it to go on so long. Don't get caught in that boat....the years go by so very fast and you can't get them back....don't let too much time go by not getting yours! Good luck to you!

[pappyld04]

Tell the man that you will be having a truly self satisfying sexual encounter at such and such time tonight and if he wants in then he better sack a freaking lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!