Long Distance Relationship

[Anathema Device]

This is something I've been wanting to talk about for quite awhile, but wasn't sure where to do it. I'm not a very regular poster here, but I know that the posters here give honest advice, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I'm in a long distance relationship, and have been for just over three years. We knew each other before that, but I think it's unnecessary backstory. He lives just over 12 hours away. He lives in the US, and I live in Canada. We talk on the phone every single night (I honestly can't remember a day where we haven't spoken on the phone...I think there have been one or two, but it's a very rare occurrence). We see each other every other weekend, driving 6 hours each to meet at the "halfway point". At Christmas, I spend a week with him. In the summer, I spend two weeks at his place, then two weeks here, then two at his place, and two here (I'm a teacher). We miss maybe 2 of our "every other weekend" visits a year for strange reasons - illness, weird work situations - but that is also rare. We set up our "agreement" about phone conversations early on. In our opinions, we are a committed couple, and just as if we were living together, if one of us can't make our usual phone time, we let the other know.

Both of us have 7 year old sons. They were actually born a couple of weeks apart. I have half time custody of my son. He only sees his son every other weekend (which is how we manage the every other weekend visits - it's the time when we don't have the kids). I've spent time with his son, and he's spent time with mine. We took a "family" vacation last summer for a week with both boys. When we got together, his exwife was planning on moving back across the country to her hometown, and so the agreement was always that he would see his son on holidays only and that they'd fly him back and forth so he could still see his dad. She made the decision to stay where she is and has recently married, so he still gets to see his son.

The agreement has always been that he would move here so we could be together. That decision was made for a lot of reasons - custody arrangements being a big part of that, obviously.

So it's been just over three years, and there have been a lot of "deadlines" set around when he could be here. Obviously, they haven't happened for various reasons. Good reasons, but that doesn't always help emotionally.

I tend to be clingy in relationships. The fact that I've been in a LDR for as long as I have is shocking to me - I never thought I would have been able to do this. But the truth is that he is absolutely perfect for me. I cannot imagine being with anyone else. While I'll glance at the occasional "eye candy", the thought of being with anyone else - of finding anyone else who is as compatible with me as he is - seems ridiculous. I just can't imagine it. He is my best friend, and I share everything with him. While he's not nearly as open as me (I am an open book, and he's the opposite) he shares a LOT with me and I know that he is more open with me than he ever has been in relationships in the past. We know each other SO well. We share the same values, interests, and sense of humour, and respect the differences that we do have. And the sex is mind-blowing.

I am ecstatic when I see him. It took a LONG time before I realized that we had exited that "euphoria" stage of a new relationship, because we have such a strong connection. While we've had the occasional disagreement when we're together, they're minor and rare. Before anyone brings up the "Vacationship" idea - yes, it's true that often we're together with no other responsibilities. But I've spent weeks there when he had to work each day, and we've done things together with the kids. I really feel we're way past the casual dating stage (and he agrees).

Everything - and I do mean everything - about this relationship is perfect. Except for geography.

I desperately want him here. He says he desperately wants to be here. He was hoping to find a new job here and relocate - but with the economy being what it is, that's not looking like an option. He could do his job "remotely", doing exactly what he does now for the same company and boss but from home (as in here!) - but his boss hates the idea. He keeps saying that he'll consider it...but he never really does. And there have been layoffs in the company, so he can only push so hard.

I know I'm lucky - I talk to him every night, and we see each other every other weekend. As far as LDRs go, it could be much, much worse. But I'm starting to get so upset and resentful that I don't have him here. As I said, I'm clingy. I'm jealous. I've started to wonder if there's some other reason why he's not here yet. He insists there isn't, and quite honestly, I believe him. But it's all academic - when I'm sad that he's not here, all of that rationale though flies out the window. He feels horribly guilty about the fact that he's not here yet, and because we've talked about it so many times, now it's the one thing that I don't talk to him about. I tell him I miss him - but I try not to ask questions about when, or if there's any possibility - it's just too upsetting for both of us.

When one of us has a bad day, it's really hard not to be there. He was really sick a few weeks ago, and not being there to help him was awful (hmmm...that's another facet - he has a chronic health condition which is in remission, but almost killed him a few years ago... while he's in really good health, there's always that worry, too...) When those things happen - when we really need a partner - just someone to be there - it's hardest. Social events and holidays and birthdays are also really hard for me. I find it's just one big reminder of the fact that he's not here.

Lately, I've started to wonder if being ecstatic every other weekend is worth being miserable the rest of the time because I don't have a partner that can be here. I don't want to lose him - I can't even imagine it. But it's been a long time, and it's really hard. I've considered an ultimatum (as in, if you can't be here by X date then it has to be over) but I can't do it - because I'm afraid of having to actually go through it. Plus, that's just mean- he IS trying.

Would you stay in this relationship? It's the best relationship I've ever been in - and it feels incredibly healthy and RIGHT...except for the damn geography.

Suggestions? Advice? Words of wisdom? Success stories? Help!

[Smile4Me]

Hi Anathema (sp?)

First of all <<<<applauds, bows>>>>>>, congrats to you for making a LDR last so long! From what you've said, you really seem to have a great thing going. My primary concern is, why can't he move? I understand the economy is bad, but personally, I think being with the person you love should be a priority. <<<Hums "All ya need is LOVE!!">>> How about you? Could you move there? Do you have anything tying you down at home besides your child's father? Surely there are more teaching jobs there. I understand neither one of you can just pick up and move on a whim, but at the same time, 3 years into this situation, there should be a better level of stability than what you have. That resentment you refer to will only fester, and if I had to guess by previous situations, resentment can AND will destroy a relationship, no matter what the terms.

You're probably thinking, "eh, what's this youngin' know about my issues" LOL. I get that a lot. What I can say is, I've gained a lot of tough-to-swallow lessons living in a mind-numbing "culture" full of resentful women who go through life with hubby being home twice every 3-5 years, while the remainder he's off being "U.S. Hero" and she's being mommy AND daddy. It's very similar to a LDR. There is a reason why the divorce rate in the military is so terrible (ohh about 70%, give or take), it's because MOST human beings are not emotionally equipped enough to maintain a relationship where they're completely self-sustaining. What's the point, really? Could be a single person and have a lot less baggage, right? And be just as lonely as you are right now. Weigh your current investments in the relationship against what you feel your emotional needs are, and I'm guessing you may answer your own questions. When you talk to him, don't let the fear of losing each other distort your reality. This situation requires logic and a lot of soul searching. You know what you need to be happy, even if you don't necessarily want to admit to it. I really wish you the best. We have some extremely intelligent, worldly people on this board, and I guarantee you a wealth of support.

[Shoop]

Hey hon

I don't know what to say...I know how you are sooo into him, i can't imagine suggesting you leave him. And as for the ultimatum, really, I don't think that would work...as for you going there...well I can't imagine you leaving your son, nor can I imagine your ex moving WITH you to the states...so it's quite a problem...

I'll think about this and come back to it later. As for now, i just worked all night and must sleep.

Maybe i'll come back to it with a fresh perspective...((sigh)) it is a position you are in. I so wish he would move here...

[mystofpric]

Well here's the deal. The economy will get better, in both our countries. It may be a year from now but it will get better. As far as him moving to you, why can't you move to him? Immagration(sorry my spelling blows) is easier to teh US from what i understand and we do love teachers! When I was a kid an mom moved us kids away from dad we got to spend all summer (the weekend school got out to a week before school started) with dad, and two weeks at christmas, sometimes spring break too if mom wanted to come up here. and it was tough at first but we ended up spend way more time with our dad that way. WOuld that be something you could do if you moved there? And would you be willing to wait another year to see how the job market unfolds?

If he's be faithful to you for three years then he's likely NOT going to start being a tramp now. So don't let that be an issue, honestly I think it's just your issues with the distance taking hold and not actually a concern with his fideltity. Talk to him hon, that's the best thing you can do just ahve a heart to heart now before your insecurities get really out of hand.

[Anathema Device]

Thanks, all. It's nice to have someone to mull this over with. I have no interest in leaving him - I just sometimes wonder if I'm totally crazy for believing that it will eventually work out. That's why I wanted to talk to someone different - everyone I know in real life has been hearing about this for 3 years, and I think they're done!

Moving there doesn't work for a number of reasons. My ex and I have a good relationship - this works well for my son, and I couldn't take him away from his dad. He'd fight me on it as well (understandably!). There's other less important reasons - teaching here makes way more money, has a good pension, etc. I'm close to my parents who live here. My boyfriend's family lives across the country and he has no ties where he lives except his son. It really does make more sense for him to come this way. I also don't think he'd want me to come that way - his ex moved there because he got a job there, and always resented him for it. He's said that he couldn't have me do the same because he'd always worry that the same thing would happen. So they're side reasons, but certainly things to consider. And immigration here shouldn't be a problem - he meets the "points" without an issue, providing he has a job when he moves.

It's just so hard to be patient.

[mystofpric]

Good things comes to those who wait!

Well I'd say hey, let's wait 6 months and see how the job market is and then start looking for something near you. Would you be open to moving a little bit, like he gota job 45 minutes away would you be kosher with finding a place nearer to his job? There are jobs out there, you just have to get creative and be open to teh possibility of cuts somewhere.

[Anathema Device]

The plan has always been that he could end up working in the US (I live close to the border) and that I would move to where he was so my commute would be longer. That's not a problem at all. Alas, the nearest major city is Detroit - and they're taking a HUGE hit with the auto industry. Our best bet is him convincing his boss to let him do his job remotely... he just has to be careful about pushing for it.

[mystofpric]

The plan has always been that he could end up working in the US (I live close to the border) and that I would move to where he was so my commute would be longer. That's not a problem at all. Alas, the nearest major city is Detroit - and they're taking a HUGE hit with the auto industry. Our best bet is him convincing his boss to let him do his job remotely... he just has to be careful about pushing for it.

EEEE that makes it tough. Even still though, depending on what he does for a living (i assume something office based) he may still be able to find a job on either side of the border. But i would serious wait teh 6 months before pushing anything with his boss if that's how you want to do it. In the mean time he needs to bust his ass and prove himself invaluable to them and maybe take a "sick day" or two and work from home to prove how easily it can be done. Then in 6 months, depending on how the job front looks, talk to his boss. Waiting gives things a chance to bottom out and settle so that you guys know where your at.

[sass]

I think three years of a LDR is incredible, and I could never do it. I tried one once, lasted a couple of months. I need to be near the person I love, very near. So, I commend you on making it work. I do not think you are wrong though in wanting him to move to you. You have given valid reason why he should be the one to move. And call me crazy, but I am sooooo tired of hearing how the economy is the blame for everything. True, it might make things harder, but there are jobs out there. They may not be the ones we want, but they are there. Unless he has a large number of bills that would make it impossible for him to do so, maybe he could look at taking a lower-paying job than he has now just to get there to you. I just do not think it is unreasonable to ask this.

My SO quit his job to move in with me. He had few bills besides his child support and we decided that I could pay what expenses he had for a few weeks until he could find a job. Within a few days he had options. Within two weeks he was working. Yes, he is working with a relative of mine, but it was a position that had been open for weeks and that she had tried to fill and couldn't because it is a tough job and involves working nights. He could have gotten the job without knowing someone at the company, so it should not be thought that is the only reason he got it. Is it perfect? No. We are going to be married in a few months and he is working nights. I would rather have him home at night, I would love for him to make twice the money he is and not have to work so hard, but we are making sacrifices for the relationship, making individual sacrifices for us.

I can't tell you what to do. I do know that ultimatums tend to be a bad idea, but if the only thing keeping him from moving truly is a job, then it should not take forever for it to happen. Of course, this is just my humble opinion and may differ from what everyone else has to say.

[Anathema Device]

He works in at the corporate level of a major IT firm and makes good money (and, as a result, has a child support payment that is equal to more than half of my take-home pay per month). Because Detroit isn't a big IT city, the industry jobs here pay substantially less - he applied for jobs that pay $20-25k a year less. And he was told that he was overqualified for all of them. True, but frustrating. He has really amazing skills and is a leader in his company - but his skills are very specialized. You'd think that'd be a good thing, but...

Him working remotely is the best option. The other option - changing jobs within the company and working out of a field office in Detroit - is also a possibility. But they've had a hiring freeze at that office for almost two years because their main clients out here are the auto industry.

I'm going to hope that his boss's friendship with him will eventually cause him to let him work remotely. Or that they open up the hiring out here.

I am relieved to hear that people don't think I'm insane for sticking with it.

[Tyger]

Kuddos to you and your man for making it so long at a LDR!

You are NOT crazy for wanting this to work out, and for feeling like it seems like it's not going to happen. After this long, it's a wonder these doubts didn't hit you sooner (though they probably did).

I don't see you as clingy in THIS relationship, from what you've said. "Clingy" women tend to be possessive, and insecure creatures. They also couldn't survive this sort of distance for as long as you have. If you WERE clingy before, from what I've read, you seemed to have grown out of that. You've also seemed to learn that you don't NEED a man in your life 100% of the time so that you have become a stronger, independant woman. So, this relationship has also made you stronger in many areas.

Realistically, the economy is sucking in a lot of areas. Where the "All you need is love" theory is nice, it's not realistic in thinking. Your car payment & house payment isn't made with love, and the creditors won't care how deeply in love you are, they want their money you promised. So it's great to see how both of you are thinking all this thru that way too.

All that said, there are a few concerns that hit me when reading the posts and followups. I'm assuming that he has checked with the ex wife, and the court, to make sure that, if he does move to you, taking his son across "country" lines, which it is, in fact removing a child from their country, is all ok.

If he's decided that he's the one willing to move to where you live, then he needs to make it happen. Some way, some how. He can find a job, if he tries hard enough. Then he can tell his boss that he's actively looking for other work to make a life change. If he's a highly valued employee, his boss will do whatever he can to keep him, that's cost-effective and benificial to the company, if he can. But, again, idle threats by your man won't show his boss that he means it. If this guy hasn't made huge efforts to actually find another job, and his boss know that, why should he go out of his way? Your man has shown he's staying anyway. In other words, your man needs to follow thru on several promises.

He's promised to move there with you. Ok, when? He's promised his boss he's leaving. Ok, when? See my point? True, an ultimatum usually backfires, making the ultimat-ee feel like they're cornered, and that makes resentment build. But what about you? Him not following thru on his word is probably going to build up resentment on your part too.

Women have a great "gut-feeling". If you don't think he's cheating on you, then go with that. Just because you're not with him every second doesn't mean he thinks of cheating. So, I wouldn't worry about that. He seems pretty committed, not only to you, but his child too, so, that shows him to be more responsible. Not ALL men cheat.

Of COURSE you want him to move there to be with you. Financially speaking, for you, at this point, you need to worry about what's best for you & your son, so staying put, with all the bennies and security you have is more important. Until he's fully committed to being with you in ever sense of the word, then you can't worry about his finances.

Every relationship has it's ups & downs. Being together physically, in person, is going to create some bickering, here & there. Hey, it happens, and it's really not something to worry about. If everything was all sugar & roses, and there were NO conflicts, THAT'S when I'd worry! LOL

He sounds like a great guy, and you sound happy to be with him, and I think that's GREAT!! Now, he just need to do some following up with YOU to be fair to everyone involved. You're sounding like you both have done a lot of research & planning. Now he needs to make a decision, one way or the other, to make it work even better than it is now.

[Anathema Device]

Tyger - great points! The "country lines" thing is totally fine. In fact, his ex knows that this is the long term plan and has no problems with it. It's even written into their custody agreement that either of them can leave the state/country and the actual custody agreement is written out so it accounts for that.

I agree with you about the talk with his boss. In fact, I said that very thing to him a couple months ago, that I didn't think he was being taken seriously because he's off-handedly talk about moving to Canada for so long. He sat down and had a talk with him and explained how important it is to him (at my suggestion). His boss was sympathetic (I've been to his house and met him on several occasions, so that likely helped), but unfortunately my SO didn't know that his boss had just come out of a meeting where they decided on lay offs (which were announced the next week). So...timing was horrible. And that's essentially what his boss says - that he can't go to bat for him with the VP when they're in the middle of layoffs. Fair enough. Hopefully things will stabilize soon.

I still am "clingy", but it's definitely morphed because of the nature of our relationship. I take our phone "dates" very seriously, and he understands that, so he is really good about keeping me in the loop if he'll be late. It's taken some change on my part and his, and largely, we succeed.

Thanks for the post - some good advice there.

[Shoop]

I thought of this more and seriously I just can't imagine you leaving him. I know you did that BEFORE (sort of, for other reasons) and you were CRUSHED. I don't see this as being an option...

Oh hon, I just dont' know....k, going to read the other responses...

[Shoop]

I think three years of a LDR is incredible, and I could never do it. I tried one once, lasted a couple of months. I need to be near the person I love, very near. So, I commend you on making it work. I do not think you are wrong though in wanting him to move to you. You have given valid reason why he should be the one to move. And call me crazy, but I am sooooo tired of hearing how the economy is the blame for everything. True, it might make things harder, but there are jobs out there. They may not be the ones we want, but they are there. Unless he has a large number of bills that would make it impossible for him to do so, maybe he could look at taking a lower-paying job than he has now just to get there to you. I just do not think it is unreasonable to ask this.

My SO quit his job to move in with me. He had few bills besides his child support and we decided that I could pay what expenses he had for a few weeks until he could find a job. Within a few days he had options. Within two weeks he was working. Yes, he is working with a relative of mine, but it was a position that had been open for weeks and that she had tried to fill and couldn't because it is a tough job and involves working nights. He could have gotten the job without knowing someone at the company, so it should not be thought that is the only reason he got it. Is it perfect? No. We are going to be married in a few months and he is working nights. I would rather have him home at night, I would love for him to make twice the money he is and not have to work so hard, but we are making sacrifices for the relationship, making individual sacrifices for us.

I can't tell you what to do. I do know that ultimatums tend to be a bad idea, but if the only thing keeping him from moving truly is a job, then it should not take forever for it to happen. Of course, this is just my humble opinion and may differ from what everyone else has to say.

Well this isn't really an option for AD because she lives in canada and he's a usa citizen. He needs to have a job in order to stay in canada....

[Shoop]

Tyger - great points! The "country lines" thing is totally fine. In fact, his ex knows that this is the long term plan and has no problems with it. It's even written into their custody agreement that either of them can leave the state/country and the actual custody agreement is written out so it accounts for that.

I agree with you about the talk with his boss. In fact, I said that very thing to him a couple months ago, that I didn't think he was being taken seriously because he's off-handedly talk about moving to Canada for so long. He sat down and had a talk with him and explained how important it is to him (at my suggestion). His boss was sympathetic (I've been to his house and met him on several occasions, so that likely helped), but unfortunately my SO didn't know that his boss had just come out of a meeting where they decided on lay offs (which were announced the next week). So...timing was horrible. And that's essentially what his boss says - that he can't go to bat for him with the VP when they're in the middle of layoffs. Fair enough. Hopefully things will stabilize soon.

I still am "clingy", but it's definitely morphed because of the nature of our relationship. I take our phone "dates" very seriously, and he understands that, so he is really good about keeping me in the loop if he'll be late. It's taken some change on my part and his, and largely, we succeed.

Thanks for the post - some good advice there.

oh AD that is the WORST timing, I can't believe that! Brutal...

[raniedaize]

Hmmm...I'm trying to decide what to say. Please stick with me; I'm quite tired.

It seems to me as if what you need is reassurance and an opportunity to vent about a less-than-ideal situation. Dear, that's perfectly fine. Finding someone with whom you feel exceedingly compatible in all areas of life is an extremely rare occurence. Soak it in! You say everything is great except for the geography. I completely understand. No, you're not crazy or insane or delusional for continuing the long distance relationship, but I do sympathize with you needing it to be a shorter distance one. If you're wanting advice or fresh perspectives, I suppose I'll just ask you this:

What are y'all's priorities?

I mean, has marriage ever been discussed between you two? Would he just be living near or actually with you? Is proximity the top of the list, or are material things (making money for bills, etc)? Maybe if you find the clutter of the relationship, you can weed it out and get what you truly want in the end.

Best wishes!...and sweet dreams too! Like I said, I'm really sleepy. Good night.

[Anathema Device]

Very good points, Taiyo Ame! And yes, I suppose part of it is just needing to vent.

Marriage has been ruled out - on both of our parts. Not because we're not committed, but because both of us have been there done that. We're not religious, will not have any more children, and don't see the point of the government piece of paper (especially because in Canada, once you live together for 2 years you are considered legally common law - which is the same here for all legal purposes). However, he would move in with me immediately. As far as we're concerned, we'd have the same level of commitment as being married - we just don't particularly want to do the marriage thing. Make sense?

We're balancing our need for proximity and our need to be realistic in regards to bills, money, and both of our children. So is proximity number one on top of the list to the exclusion of everything else? Nope. It can't be. We both have too many other responsibilities for that. Is it important? Very much so.