Vvs

[Kace]

I'll preface this by stating that it may sound like another "she isn't interested in sex" thread, but I've already searched through the forums for an answer and haven't had much luck except for this article: http://forums.tootimid.com/index.php?showtopic=8785 Sorry if this post ends up long winded but I figured the more information given the better the advice I may get in return.

We've been married for about 6 years now. The sex quickly tapered off after the honeymoon. I chalked it up to the reality and work of being married. I've always had the higher sex drive and been more willing to experiment. That divide has grown over time. Over the years the frequency of sex has dwindled to a trickle. Right now it's once every other month at most. When it does happen I'm the initiator every time. No matter where or how I start she cuts the foreplay short and wants missionary only. She'll just lay there. She won't touch me. For me, sex isn't just about getting my rocks off - it's about feeling connected and bonded with another person. I couldn't understand why she was so disinterested in sex; why it seemed like it wasn't ever on the to-do list. It was always "I'm tired" or "Maybe later". Later never came.

She told me this past week that she would like to try having kids within the next year. While I have no academic objection to the idea of becoming a father, I can't stand the thought of one more thing I have to compete with to win her attention. It would add more stress to both our lives and would likely make sex even less frequent. When I told her this she broke down and said that it isn't that she doesn't want sex, it's that it's too painful. She feels like she's a "bad wife" and her "vagina is broken". Her OB diagnosed her with vulvodynia, specifically vulvar vestibulitis syndrome. I've done LOTS of research on it and it's downright ghastly. In her case, the pain is localized to the lower portion of the vestibule (vaginal opening) furthest from the clitoris. I've found lots of support networks for patients of VVS, but nothing for spouses.

I feel so selfish for wanting sex now and I've tried to stop initiating and pestering her. I've mentioned to her that there are things we could do together that wouldn't involve the affected area. I love giving oral, love doing whatever it takes to bring her over the edge. I figured my suggestions would spark something, maybe give her some ideas. So far, nothing. When I've brought up the topic of oral before (both giving and receiving) she responded with "there are some places mouths aren't supposed to go". It shut me down. I'm trying my best to be supportive but it all looks so bleak.

The whole situation is taking a toll on my sanity. The saying is very true - sex is like money. Neither is a problem until you aren't getting any. For the past couple of years I've been edgy, short tempered, angry, depressed, disconnected. I can't stop thinking about how badly I crave sex. It's to the point where I can't concentrate on anything at work or home without this feeling of crushing despair. But the thing I need so much is what hurts her. And I don't want to hurt her. But I don't know how much longer I can repress my own needs. I'm not sure what to do at this point.

[ladylove]

Firstly good for you and your wife for figuring out what the problem is/was to start, and good for you for doing your researching This is a real killer issue. In your research have you tried any treatments at all no matter how slim the chances of success. If not, that would be my first quest. Look at some of the available successful options that your wife would be a good candidate for and call your Doc to talk it over with him/her and come up with a plan. If you feel you have tried all the options, your doctor has offered (but not surgery) find another doc that is finding new innovative ways to treat vvs. Sometimes your Doc will tell you about someone, sometime you have to ask, and sometimes they don't know. My last choice is always surgery, but it is a choice. That being said, Your wife has to be proactive in trying to find a solution to the problem. If she's not interested in finding a solution, I fear, that is where you need to start. If she is then the working together for a solution should be fairly uncomplicated to do. However, having a baby right now will complicate things immensely. I would let you wife know, although you want to have children someday, you do not want to have children until the two of you can find a solution for the vvs. At least, the last part is what I think I'm hearing from you, if it's not ok, if it is you need to let her know exactly how you feel.

[Kace]

Thanks for the reply. I knew she had occasional pain the past couple of years but she's always dismissed it as mysterious female problems like yeast or heat related chafing. From what she's saying now this has been going on for about 5 years! I guess she's become mentally conditioned that sex = burning pain. I wish I'd known sooner that it was all the same condition. For so long I thought she just wasn't interested in me anymore or that I just couldn't find a way to please her; like I was *that* bad at sex. Those kinds of thoughts can gnaw at you.

She has another appointment today. I'm hoping for good news but from the accounts of other VVS sufferers it's sometimes taken them years to get it to a manageable condition. Or not at all. She's mentioned that she's tried several anti-fungal creams since her OB seems stuck on the idea that it's yeast. The latest prescription was for lidocaine ointment to numb the area. It did - but it also numbed everything else. We'll see what her OB says today. If it's another round of antibiotics or antifungals I'm going to demand a referral to a specialist. I know the National Vulvodynia Association (http://www.nva.org) keeps a list of medical professionals that know what VVS is and what to do about it. What's so frustrating is that it seems like there isn't much I can do. I'm expressly prohibited from being present at any of the gyno appointments - it's like a woman's sacred space. Heaven help the poor sod that tries to intervene! It's not like I haven't seen the parts before but alas, I'll have to assist from the sidelines. I'm a fix-it kind of guy but in this case there is no protocol for me to follow.

I just want her to enjoy sex. At this point I don't know if she ever has or if she was just pretending so it wouldn't hurt my feelings. What a depressing thought. I guess the having kids questions were enough of a wakeup call that the sex problems need fixing. I really do want a family but I realize that bringing a baby into a frustrated home might be enough stress to break up our marriage. That wouldn't be fair to any of us.

[ToyQueen]

I'm expressly prohibited from being present at any of the gyno appointments - it's like a woman's sacred space.

Okay, I totally don't get this. Why are you prohibited from being at these appointments? This does involve you, and it is important that you be there. I know my husband was involved in my appointments on occasion. This totally doesn't make sense to me. The two of you need to be working together on this, and being there to actually speak to the doctor is an important part of this.

[Kace]

I've told her that my number one concern is for her to be pain-free. And I've offered to take time off work to go with her to doctor's appointments. The vibe I get is that she's uncomfortable with me being there. I don't get it either. Maybe she believes I'll think less of her if I see her in stirrups? Or maybe that she wants to tell her OB something that she'd otherwise hold back if I was in the room? I have no idea. When I've asked all she says is "No, no, I'll be fine."

Any women here feel weirded out if their guys are present for OB appointments?

[ToyQueen]

There are times that I may have been uncomfortable having my spouse with me, but if there was a problem, it was nice to have him there. That way we made sure our questions were answered to our satisfaction. Frquently, when a woman says, "No, no, I'll be fine.", she really wants you to push a little to go with her. She just doesn't want to ask.

[jhard]

Kace,

I know exactly how you feel. Personally, I would say that you probably have to learn to live with and get by with a much "lesser" sex life than you would prefer, if you want to stay with this woman. The partner with the lesser sex drive controls the situation, unfortunately. Assume that things will stay more or less as they are (and be happy if they improve). From what I have learned, I think most often things do not change substantially. This should be a big factor to consider before kids are brought into the equation. If I only had sex once a month I would leave the house and never come back, ever.

j

[Kace]

From what my wife told me the appointment went in a pretty routine fashion - <poke> <poke>, yup it's vulvodynia. Once again, another round of antifungals. At least this time she was prescribed a topical steroid for the inflammation. The OB said that the next recheck is in the summer. And if this doesn't do it, there's always surgery. Really? Cutting parts out is the best idea she's got? Vestibular glands are are there for a reason! They serve a purpose! Dammit, it's not even MY vulva and I'm more concerned with it. She's already said she doesn't want surgery. And she was surprised that I knew what Bartholin's and Skenes glands were and what they do. I might not ask for directions but that's because I keep a map.

I'll try being more insistent on being at the next visit. I feel like I'm already asking quite a lot already. And I *really* hope the meds work this time. A part of me is still scared that there may be a whole other layer beyond the physical ailment that's affecting her libido. One battle at a time I guess.

[ladylove]

The next recheck is in the summer...... I don't think so. I would have her insist on a recheck sooner in about 4 - 6 weeks. That should be sufficient amount of time for the meds to kick in. Steroids are pretty fast acting. If they are going to work you know pretty quickly. If they are not working you need to move on to the next step..... I think you need to insist on a sooner recheck.

[Kace]

I think the recheck was when her normal annual exam is. I got a better understanding of the new treatment she's on from a medical publication available at the doctor's office. There is a large percentage of VVS patients that have chronic irritation only near the vestibular ducts. This can still be from a persistent fungal infection that isn't treatable with topical antifungals because it's *in* the ducts as well. So the medication can't get down in there to kill it off. This time around the OB put my wife on repeated high dose oral antifungals which work systemically. It may take a while for the infection to die and the inflammation to subside. Trust me, if this round of meds isn't working in the 4-6 week range I'm going to find her a specialist, preferably one that doesn't immediately turn to a scalpel when things don't go as planned. I have paper photocopy of the article if anyone needs information about the latest treatments. The publication is "OBG Management", the article was from May of 2009 and is titled "A Practical Approach to Vestibulitis". It's fantastic and written for doctors, not some watered down pamphlet in the lobby of a clinic. I don't think I can scan and upload it here (copyright issues) but if you can't find it I'll be happy to send it to you directly. Just PM me.

My wife seems to be a little more upbeat now. I don't know if it's because she might finally rid herself of the condition or that I seem intent on focusing on her needs. She actually initiated this morning! I really missed it and I think she did too. The pain wasn't too bad this morning - I tried to avoid the part that hurt. I can't understand why it took 5 years to do something about a chronic pain condition. I mean, if my scrotum felt like it was constantly on fire and the doctor couldn't fix it in one or two visits... I'd end up on the 6 o'clock news one way or another.

[ladylove]

Good for you both! I hope things continue to get better, and better, and better....

[Tyger]

I had something similar right after the birth of our daughter, except my pain was UP inside, and felt like there was a burr right in one spot, no matter how much lube we used, or whatever, that pain was still there. I went to my OB, who was a woman (male OB's, in my opinion, tend to dismiss women's symptoms more and more to "it's a bacterial infection or yeast infection. They don't have the parts, and I don't think they can fully understand how it feels), listened, gave me a cream (Estrase) to put on the spot, and after 2 wks, I was fine. The BIG keys were that I was open & honest with my OB/GYN. She LISTENED to me. She also told me that there were other options, but that this was a possible first step, or cure. Yay.

Your wife has issues. Not only health-wise. She has to try and trust you, open up to you personally, emotionally, and that includes discussing her health issues. Maybe not in "gory" detail, but witholding information such as "sex causes me pain", is VERY important to share. I do say that everyone needs a part of their life that's still private, this has to do with your sexual life as a married couple, and any GYN worth their certificate/degree would be happy to have the spouse in on a consult. A happy marriage means communication, a good sex life, and a good relationship. You don't HAVE to be in on the actual exam, and you may not want to be. That would cause even ME to not want my hubby there. It's a bit informal to have your legs spread, in stirrups, and carrying on a conversation that's basic. LOL But, yes, you SHOULD be in there as a consult. If she's having health issues, you will want to have a consult, with the BOTH of you at the OB/GYN office, to make sure that, with this health issue, it's a good idea to try for now, or, if not, when.

If your marriage isn't strong enough to survive a CONSULT, you sure won't survive having a baby. THAT'S stress my friend. Having a baby rarely ever saves a marriage. It's a joyous time, but if she is having health issues now, she may be at risk for more as a pregnancy progresses. THAT is the MOST time she will need you as her husband, because her body changes so rapidly, it's scary for her, and it's also very exciting as well. And, as potential parents, you should share in that, and the growing baby inside. It's awesome.

It's totally normal for you to be worried about "competition". I can tell you from experience that, for the first, at least 6 months, all she will think of is the baby. Sleep, food, bathing, getting dressed in "real" clothes, will all be something that she may not think of regularly. Especially sex. If she has a c-section, it's a long healing process. Sex will be a no-no for 6 weeks, reguardless of vaginal birth or c-section, even if you're feeling ok. Think of it this way, something the size of a watermelon is trying to get out of the tip of your penis. If that happened, you'd want to FULLY heal before engaging in sex, right? I was unable to have sex for about 6 months due to some slight tearing of my internal stitches from my c-section. However, my husband was very understanding. He knew/saw what I was going thru (even saw the whole c-section procedure), and knew I needed to fully heal first. I breastfed too, which is very tiring, but the best for the baby.

I am in no way trying to scare you. I'm an odd case. LOL No truer statement's ever been said actually. LMAO Anyway, the majority of people that have babies, can resume sex after 6 weeks of healing for the mom. Some women have a hard time readjusting from the role of Mom to Wife nightly. "Moms" don't have sex! OMG! It sounds silly. But it's true. A woman's body changes forever having a baby. Unless you have a 24 hr personal trainer, access to plastic surgery, and no other time on your hands BUT to devote to your body (ha!!) then yes, it changes forever. However, I am proud of my c-section scar. I am proud that I breastfed our daughter for a full year. Am I happy with my body? No, and I'm still trying to get rid of baby fat. LOL But, my hubby assures me daily that he loves my curves, loves me, and admires all I do.

So, talk with your wife, ask if you can go to a CONSULT, but stress you won't be in the room for an actual pelvic exam, be open, honest, and nice when you talk with her. Don't cave in if you don't feel you're ready for fatherhood, because it won't help your relationship now, or later on down the road.

Best wishes.

[leslieanne]

Kace - I'm sorry I wasn't checking out the forums much in the past few months (significant family issues). I hope your wife is doing better and has had some improvement in the pain she experiences. If the oral antifungals don't do the trick she should definately see another OB/Gyn - DO NOT DO SURGERY - this has not been shown to be all that successful and can in fact lead to more pain due to scaring that may occur after the surgery.

Vulvodynia is often misdiagnosised at "recurrent/persistant yeast infection". Repeatitive use of the antifungals can make the problem worse in that the patient can end up with local sensitivity to the antifungal. Oral antifungals can be of use in some cases, however the time frame for use should not need to be extensive. Topical steroids can made a big difference for many patients. The trick is using the correct strength - the OTC (over the counter) steroids (hydrocortisone 1%)rarely if ever work. Typically a mid or high dose strength steroid (Valesone or Timovate) are needed. The frequency of use can also vary, however using them at least once a day and often twice a day for 1-3 months is necessary.

As an FYI when I have patients with this type of a concern I see them every 2-4 weeks depending on what their symptoms are and what type of response they are (or aren't) getting from the treatment.

Unfortunately this is one of those disoders/problems where there is not a simple solution. It takes a stepwise approach and a willingness to try different medications to determine which one works best for any one individual.

This can be an issue at any point in time during a woman's life - however it does increase in frequency as women get older and in post menopausal women there is a skin disorder - lichen sclerosis - which has very similar symptoms but also so some skin changes that occur.

Again - I hope your wife is doing better and that she is getting more regular follow up for this. I also hope that she relaxes and lets you come to her gyn visits - as an MD I always find it better to talk to both people as this really does affect them both - in addition the partner always seems to have a better understanding, acceptance and compasion for what's happening if they are actively a part of the conversation with the doctor and the patient.

[Kace]

It seems that the prolonged oral antifungal regimen along with the prescription steroid creme is working. She's said that the pain is gone so long as we take it easy. We still aren't getting to bed with any increase in frequency or variety but I'm hoping this will improve with time. I'm a bit worried that it wasn't just the VVS that's the problem but a fundamental disinterest in sex. I don't know how to go about tackling that though.

She's got a followup appointment coming up in June and she's ok with me being there now. Yay for small victories.

[ginshreve]

I think a "fundamental disinterest in sex" can be addressed, because to me, the physical part of sex is not the part I miss the most when I'm not in a sexual relationship. To me, sex is an emotional intimacy and connection, even more than a physical one, and I wonder if that emotional intimacy is lacking, which is then coming out in the physical part of your relationship.

There are a couple of things that I would suggest to try and perk up her interest, now that the pain is under control. Some of these might work for you, and it's worth considering them.

Hire a cleaning service to do the housework so that she is relieved of that chore. I find that disinterest in sex often results from being over-tired and/or stressed out, so the more of that you can relieve the more likely she will feel sexually energetic. If hiring cleaners is not feasible, then step up and make sure you are doing a full 50% - and the bigger percentage you do, the more energy she will have left for love-making. Sometimes resentment over an unequal distribution of housework masquerades as lack of sexual interest, and you are already forwarned that this is not a woman who talks easily about things painful to her. Also, sometimes women spend their days taking care of others, at work, in their family, even their friends - and it is very erotic to me when my man makes an extra effort to nurture me - and not just when he wants something from me.

Another thing to try is to set up an evening of no sex, only sensual play. You are good at research, read up on the Tao of Sexual Massage, and challenge her to complete the book with you - it is full of sensual massages and touch, but actual sex is prohibited until the activities in the book are finished. Sometimes it's nice to build up the sexual anticipation and excitement without being allowed to fully release it, and she may be willing to engage around this with the hard and fast rule of no actual sexual activity.

[hyokahey]

Please consider picking up these two books and giving them an honest read: 'Intimacy and Desire' and 'Resurrecting Sex' both by David Schnarch.

[ilovebabyjada]

Please consider picking up these two books and giving them an honest read: 'Intimacy and Desire' and 'Resurrecting Sex' both by David Schnarch.

you know so many great books that are "sexual health" related, would you mind sending me a list of them in a PM.. that would be so great!! you have read my "concerned" post so you kind of know what our issues are.

[Kace]

So my wife's gyno checkup was yesterday and I got to be present. She's still having some residual soreness but it's more manageable now - going to try one last round of oral antifungals to kill off the remaining irritants. Still trying to be patient though it's hard.

Gals, I don't know how you manage the speculum. Looks like something out of the middle ages.

[mystofpric]

Gals, I don't know how you manage the speculum. Looks like something out of the middle ages.

Good ol' duck lips? gee maybe more men should go tothe gyno with us, they might respect the parts more! Kace, I hope things are getting better. And as far as a general disinterest I don't think she'd let you go with her if she didn't want to be intimate with you. I mean, that's pretty intimate! Let her get healthy and then start bringing bakc up the subject of wild and hardcore sex (okay well maybe not that but ya know) I'm sure she'll be more responsive when her who-ha doesn't feel like it's rebeling and trying to secede...

[Kace]

I'm sure she'll be more responsive when her who-ha doesn't feel like it's rebeling and trying to secede...

Oh, the south will rise again.

I know I have to be patient for it though. Stupid saccharomycotes. Can't hate them completely - they may ruin sex but they also make beer. So it's a mixed bag.

[mystofpric]

Oh, the south will rise again.

Yes, yes it will....

[Kace]

I think we may have figured it out.

It was the pill. She has been off it for a couple of weeks now and she's told me she now gets distracted at work thinking about sex. It's the best news I've heard in a long time. The residual pain is gone too and when we do have sex she's much wetter than she has been in ages. (probably related) It's still mostly vanilla in bed but it's a massive improvement! Part of the last gyno visit was a pre-pregnancy assessment to make sure everything is ok before we try to start a family. Green light, no more pill, hello libido.

If she weren't trying to get pregnant I'd be just fine with condoms so long as she doesn't have to take that libido killer again. It's the 3rd pill she's tried and they all have various side effects. Even tried the nuvaring thing and it ended up giving her a cervical ulcer! Anyway, things finally look good. Now all I have to do is slowly corrupt this "good girl" persona of hers.

[Tyger]

I'm very happy for you both!!!!