Perspective Desired

[KentJ]

I am married - fourteen years. My wife and I are very driven people; others describe us as over achievers. We are on the same page on most things that affect our lives. Our biggest disconnect happens to be with sex. I have always had a substancial sex drive. My wife new this about me prior to us getting married. We discussed sex privately, and with a group of members of our church prior to getting married. All that to say, that we both agreed that sex is a critical part of any marriage. Our sex life was fine, until we experienced multiple miscarriages. We were never able to carry a pregnancy full term. We are parents through adoption. We have spent a few stints in marriage/couples counciling. While our relationship is evolving on a number of vectors, our sex life is awful. Over the past five years, we have not had sex more than 10 times.

I am committed to our relationship. We both belive in the vows that we took to each other. We are committed to staying married. What I cannot understand is what I need to do to increase the frequency of sexual play. If you are to ask my wife what type of lover I am, she would tell you that I am considerate and enthusiatic -those are her words that she shared with our therapist. And to be honest, I always work to stimulate my wife to orgasm prior to my having one. There are times when I do not climax, but only provide my wife with one - orally, digital stimulation or intercourse. After sex, I will cuddle when she wants, and I will also roll-over and leave her alone when she wants that. In short, I am trying to be a "modern male" sensitative to my wife's needs, but mine are not being met.

And before you ask, yes I have discussed this with her. I have told her that I need to have sex more often. I have told her that I want to have sex with her. That I am still very much attracted to her. I tell her this when we are clearing the dining room table, when we are running together, when we are engaged in sex. I tell her that I love her body, the way she smells, the way she tastes, and the way that she coos when I touch, taste, nibble and caress her in those places that she likes me to do so. She responds, "I know".

While I am a middle aged male, I keep myself in great shape - good diet, running at 4:30 AM and in the gym when I can. My wife's colleagues and friends comment that I am a good looking guy, and very nice. This sounds vain, but I am frequently "hit on" by women from 21 - 61. My wife thinks that it is funny. It makes me feel awkward, and always surprises me when it happens...hell I am almost 50!

Help! I enjoy sex as adult play. I enjoy sex as a critical means for stress relief. I don't want to stray from my relationship, because it would be wrong, hurtful (to both of us) and because I desire my wife. I need some real people to weigh in. Our therapist stated that she could tell that the two of us are still very much attracted to each other, but that we have to work at it.

And finally, yes I do more than help around the house; inside and out. Heck my wife laughs because I even fold underwear.

How do we get back to having sex at least once a week? And how do I get her to get past, "you know what I like". We are doing the same things that we did when we started dating. If I bought her a toy, she would feel insulted.

[pinkygirl]

I am married - fourteen years. My wife and I are very driven people; others describe us as over achievers. We are on the same page on most things that affect our lives. Our biggest disconnect happens to be with sex. I have always had a substancial sex drive. My wife new this about me prior to us getting married. We discussed sex privately, and with a group of members of our church prior to getting married. All that to say, that we both agreed that sex is a critical part of any marriage. Our sex life was fine, until we experienced multiple miscarriages. We were never able to carry a pregnancy full term. We are parents through adoption. We have spent a few stints in marriage/couples counciling. While our relationship is evolving on a number of vectors, our sex life is awful. Over the past five years, we have not had sex more than 10 times.

I am committed to our relationship. We both belive in the vows that we took to each other. We are committed to staying married. What I cannot understand is what I need to do to increase the frequency of sexual play. If you are to ask my wife what type of lover I am, she would tell you that I am considerate and enthusiatic -those are her words that she shared with our therapist. And to be honest, I always work to stimulate my wife to orgasm prior to my having one. There are times when I do not climax, but only provide my wife with one - orally, digital stimulation or intercourse. After sex, I will cuddle when she wants, and I will also roll-over and leave her alone when she wants that. In short, I am trying to be a "modern male" sensitative to my wife's needs, but mine are not being met.

And before you ask, yes I have discussed this with her. I have told her that I need to have sex more often. I have told her that I want to have sex with her. That I am still very much attracted to her. I tell her this when we are clearing the dining room table, when we are running together, when we are engaged in sex. I tell her that I love her body, the way she smells, the way she tastes, and the way that she coos when I touch, taste, nibble and caress her in those places that she likes me to do so. She responds, "I know".

While I am a middle aged male, I keep myself in great shape - good diet, running at 4:30 AM and in the gym when I can. My wife's colleagues and friends comment that I am a good looking guy, and very nice. This sounds vain, but I am frequently "hit on" by women from 21 - 61. My wife thinks that it is funny. It makes me feel awkward, and always surprises me when it happens...hell I am almost 50!

Help! I enjoy sex as adult play. I enjoy sex as a critical means for stress relief. I don't want to stray from my relationship, because it would be wrong, hurtful (to both of us) and because I desire my wife. I need some real people to weigh in. Our therapist stated that she could tell that the two of us are still very much attracted to each other, but that we have to work at it.

And finally, yes I do more than help around the house; inside and out. Heck my wife laughs because I even fold underwear.

How do we get back to having sex at least once a week? And how do I get her to get past, "you know what I like". We are doing the same things that we did when we started dating. If I bought her a toy, she would feel insulted.

(I've lurked here for about a year and half before finally becoming a member...)

Anyhow, I've gone thru multiple miscarriages, and our sex life "hurt" from that. It was the beginning of my husband's detachment emotionally from "us". It took me awhile to talk to him about it, but there were things that made me think my husband was cheating on me....so I held back. The little things that my husband was GREAT at - compliments, telling me that I was beautiful, rubbing up against me as I walked by, etc - all sorta stopped. My husband didn't realized that he stopped doing this, but he did admit that he held back alot of actions and words to "leave me alone" because of our miscarriages. I did not want to talk about them. It took me finding some porn to realize that my husband missed me. We used to watch it together but haven't in such a long time. We went from a fairly regular "sex schedule" (about 3x/week, give or take a day or two here and there) - to barely any at all - to now, every day, sometimes more than once a day.

Sometimes the "i want you, i need you (SEX!!!)" comments don't get as far as "your hair looks nice today", or noticing that your wife got a haircut, or a kiss on the forehead with no words, etc...

Just a thought.

[Mikayla1]

Let me just say that I am very sorry for your losses! Miscarriages are psychologically devastating! I suspect that this has a lot to do with her view on sex. I do not think it is concious, but subconcious. I believe that it is possible that she is connecting sex with the miscarriages - and not only that, but being close to you, doing the act that made the babies that she (and you) both wanted so badly seems "wrong" to her - disrespectful to her "never came to fruition" children. You also mention religion - and it is completely possible that she associates sex not as an act of pleasure for you or her, but instead as an act of procreation. Having sex for fun was great when you could have made babies from it - but once she discovered that she could not carry a baby, the sex seemed....unnecessary! I believe that this is totally subconsciou for the most part - and this is such a strong mental block that it may take some professional help to get her through it.

I am most sure that you are sad about your miscarriages. I am also sure that for all intensive purposes you have "gotten over it" and moved on to adopt and raise your children. I suspect that she blames herself for the losses. WOmen are the ones who take on that awesome responsibility of growing a child in our womb. When something goes wrong, we can't help but blame ourselves. Some women never recover from loosing a child.

I think that to get your sex life back she will have to come to terms with these inner feelings. I think that professional counseling - perhaps in your church can offer some guidance. Yes, sex is important to a marriage - even with the miscarriages - sex is still something that you both should look to to heal each other. It doesn'thave to be an evil reminder. Find a way to convey that to her - and get help to do it!

[pinkygirl]

I was kinda rushed when I was replying earlier but kept thinking about your post. YES, exactly what Mikayla said! I felt like the miscarriages were MY fault and without talking about, assumed that is what my husband felt too. It took me getting help, and to come to terms with what had happened to me, us...

[KentJ]

Pinkygirl and Mikayla:

Thanks for your thoughts. This is why I "stepped from the sidelines" and put our situation out there.

The truth is that it took me more than three years to get my wife to go to therapy. I thought we needed it, and that she needed it, as I did. The problem was that she would only go to four or five sessions, and then would stop. I then tried to talk her into going by her self, but she refused.

I know that this has been a painful part of our lives together. As good as we were about communicating, it has been a struggle to get past this. Now that I think about it, I am sure that I have gotten to a place of living with it, as I don't think it will ever disappear. I don't think any tragedy ever leaves, it only gets put into a place where the pain is managable.

I am sure that I felt courage to see support here, because I have been watching the HBO series "tell me you love me". In the show, a couple confronts fertility issues. It is very realistic. It conjured up some old ghosts.

That said, I know that we will slowly have to work our way to our new selves. My problem is that I know that I cannot "drag" my wife to get help. The irony is that she is a staunch advocate of therapy...for everyone else. But she says that she doesn't dwell on the past, and focuses only on the future.

I am reading as much as I can to seek alternative "ways in" to help, but I am challenged to maintain my resolve. And candidly, I am about masterbated out! After five years of "sex on demand" and another five years of "virtual celebacy", I am doing my best to not react in a typical male fashion.

Our children are wonderful. My wife is a very good mother to them. We both belive that they were destined to be our sons, as we see so much of each other and our families in them (nuture and nature). We just need to learn how to "play" - inside and outside of "the bedroom".

Again, thanks for your input.

Njoy

[thurisas]

Let me start by saying that I can't even imagine a loss on the magnitude of yours and your wife's. Frankly, I have no basis of reference for that kind of grief. I will give some hopefully useful input, though. You and your wife have, out of necessity, had to change your relationship. Whether it is a problem of psychology, stress, biology or whatever at this point is irrelevant for the simple fact that she doesn't see the need for getting help. That is where the crux of the problem is. If you can't see that things have changed, that your relationship isn't a happy one, and that you have to adjust your life to this new way of living then why would you think you need therapy? Why would your wife? Until she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you love her very deeply, that you wish to spend your life with her, but that you're miserable and need something to change to make this work out she is going to continue to go through what she might see as the steps of being in a marriage without actually being part OF the marriage. She needs to see the problem before she will actively seek to fix it.

Thurisas.

[Tyger]

Let me also extend a heartfelt condolences for you and your wife's losses. That must have been devestaing to have to go thru. But, as you said, you've moved on, adopted some children, and are good parents to them.

I have no way to fully understand that kind of grief, never have been thru it myself, but I have a feeling that, as mentioned previously, for some reason, even though your wife says she's moved on, looked forward, the losses of her unborn children has had a bit more of an affect on her than she cares to admit, probably to herself even. One miscarriage is extremely painful, but several, well, that's, I'm sure, devestating. A woman really DOES blame herself for these things, even with the best medical care, explanations, and assurances later, there's always that nagging little "I wonder if I had done this, or stopped doing that" that naggles in our minds......

If your wife truly wants to move on, and try to keep things positive, going back and sticking to counselling is probably best. Thurisas is right on there. So is Howard as far as showing your children that a good marriage has a lot of affection showing.

Welcome to the forum, and I wish you a more positive road in your sex life.

[4whatitsworth]

Oh boy can I relate! I am a person that does not beleive in divorce, and ended up with one after 6 years of marriage. When I married my wife she was a 28 year old virgin. She was great looking and told me not to worry about sex, she had waited a long time and wanted it as badly as I did. In less than six months she told me she did not like oral sex preformed on her. I asked what I could do differently and she said nothing everything is fine. Later she did not like giving it to me, having me touch her and even did not want me to kiss her over the next six years.

I tried to make sex more appealing but she refused. I agree with Mikayla when she said it might have something to do with your church. My ex-wife was told no you can't have sex it's dirty, it is a sin until your married. She had bee taught that for so long she could not shed those feelings even after our marraige.

She didn't have any guilt associated with me because We did not even have sex until we gave our vows to one another in marriage. Disperate because of my longing for intatmacy, I once showed your a xxx movie hoping to get the hormones in gear. She watch 10 minutes worth and shot it off. I asked if she liked it and she responded no it made me horny. I said why is that bad? and she replied because its wrong.

I asked for counseling and she wouldn't go, I asked to talk to someone in the church and she said I don't have a problem. I told her I had a problem so we had a problem. She would not seek any outside help. After no sex of any kind, touching or kissing, for a year I said enough is enough. We were divorced a few months later.

4 years later after I met the love of my life, my ex and I were talking about child visitation and she brought up the subject and asked you want to know why I wouldn't give you sex? I replied of course, and she answered because I knew you wanted it. I am jealous of your situation because your wife still wants to you, and I can see hope.

But, I don't know how she can say she loves you if you have only had sex that often?? I had no idea what I was missing until I met a woman who shared my wants and disires. My kids see us HAPPY and tickling, kissing, hugging and totally in love, that's right totally not faking it. We have been married for 15 years and she means the world to me. She would never and I repeat never treat me the way me ex or your wife as treated you, because love my friend is about give and take, and your wife is a taker.

I don't feel your problems are sexual. I feel she does not respect you, or care about your feelings or she would be more giving. I hope you can find a solution to your problems, but until she realizes what a great catch you are and treats you like you deserve to be treated, I don't think she will change. Some people are not wired the same as the rest of us and if she is not willing to change and at least fake it a few times each month then she don't deserve your loyalty.

[KentJ]

Wow! This board is really good therapy in that I am not just rolling the thoughts around in my mind.

All of you have let me know that I am not being unreasonable in reapeatedly asking my wife to get into therapy - individual and couples. I guess I was not clear in stating that I have been in therapy, as I felt the pain of the multiple losses. The interesting thing is that I felt responsible for the miscarriages. I say it was interesting, because we went to one of the worlds most successful fertility practices. What we learned there was that they could find nothing wrong with either one of us. As a matter of fact, we were told that we were the healthiest couple they have ever seen. I know that was supposed to help, but it only added to our frustration. We finally put an end to the prosess because it was physically and emotionally destroying us.

Sex was not a time to enjoy, it was a "command performance" whenever she was ovulating. Over the six, almost seven years, only once was I not able to produce an erection within minutes (I did perform within the hour). All the time, I attempted to keep it as "loose" as possible. The problem was that my wife frequently was not able to relax and derive pleasure from the intercourse. Look, I know that she was feeling the pressure, which is why I knew that one of us had to maintain some semblance of humanity. Without a smile, life is nothing but awful!

We are not awful people. And we don't have an awful life. We have family that loves and supports both of us. The in-laws enjoy spending time with us, and we them. We spend vacations - skiing, golfing, hiking, beaching - together. That said, both sets of parents had their issues as parents - whose don't. My wife and I have talked about them, and how we want to avoid those mistakes with our kids. The cruxt of the issue is that I believe that therapy works only if you are willing to accept the pain of confronting ones issues. I think I have become a better person by participating.

I think my wife is afraid that she will become completely unraveled if she truly engages in the process. It is funny but she goes to the point of a little pain, and then she refueses to go further. I understand it better now because I see that therapy means that she has to be out of control in that she has to go where the pain takees her. And as I read over my previous words, I did not mention that we both are "control freaks". I consider myself to be "in recovery", as I am better able to control the critical, and let flow the dribble as a result of therapy. I would not be in such a place if it were not for the trajedy of our losses.

I guess I have babbled on for much to long, and now feel a bit guilty about the middle verbage. The truth is that I do love my wife. I am an optimist and belive that we can get our physical relationship to a point where we can begin to explore our sexual wants and desires while parallel pathing our emotional relationship. I believe that we both need that. I also agree that our children need that from us. We need to be loving role models, so that our children are better empowered to ultimatley look for a mate that gives, nutures and derives pleasure from shareing.

Thank you all for you words. Thanks for talking from your hearts and from your experiences. There are so many people with courage who contribute here. Ii respect and treasure you.

Njoy

[KentJ]

All,

Thanks for your responses, especially the personal information.

I know that there are a number of "hot topics" in all relationships - Money, Sex, Children, Work. So one of the things I believe is that our problems are not unique. What I want is to make our response to the problems such that we are in the tail end of the distribution, and not in the mean. I think we both deserve it, as do our children.

I also realize, that I cannot do it alone - no relationship exists (for a long period of time) because one person puts most of the effort forward most of the time. The challenge in my relationship is that I need to get my wife to accept that we are not giving ourselves the best chance to be happy. To that end, over the years I have noticed that her parents are not that happy. Earlier on, I did not think that was going to be a problem, because my wife had I had talked about what makes people stray from relationships. We both agreed that both parties are responsible for making their partner happy. And the best way to do that was to keep communication ope on everything. Clearly the reality is much more difficult to execute over time.

I am not willing to "give-up" because I want to believe that this period may be one that is naturally occuriing in a relationship. I guess only time will tell!

Thanks again,

Njoy

[pappyld04]

I guess I was not clear in stating that I have been in therapy, as I felt the pain of the multiple losses. The interesting thing is that I felt responsible for the miscarriages.

I know exactly what you are talking about when you say you feel responsible. One of my exes, we were supposed to marry, had 3 in a row and I felt exactly the same as you. It actually caused us to drift apart because I was afraid of what may happen to her later. If she had carried a baby to term and then died during delivery I know know how I would have reacted. It is good that you have stuck with it and found another way to deal with this. It sounds like you have the right idea.

[Tyger]

I've heard that some men feel responsible for their SO's miscarriages, and, to me, that shows how much the man cares for his woman when that happens, if that makes sense?

You are SOOOO right! It takes 2 to make a relationship work. If one person puts forth all of the effort, the relationship won't succeed, since it takes 2 people making conscious efforts.

It sounds like, to me, that your wife is use to seeing an "unhappy relationships" as normal, and so she is perfectly comfortable being in one. What she needs to be willing to be shown, is that a Happy Relationship is soooo much more fulfilling, fun, and great to be in. Good luck in all you try!