In Marriage:

[dogg]

This came up in the other thread, I thought it might make a good question.

If you marry someone, is it not your duty to have sex with them? Because when you marry, you are effectively saying, I will look to my partner for sex, my partner only, and I will try to fulfill my partners needs. So it's a safe, happy enviroment. That's the way I see it. I know there are circumstances...that come up. But I mean in the context of a marriage where both partners are healthy and physically able to have sex.

That said, I'm not talking about forcing one partner to have sex when they are sick, tired..or just plain don't want to at that time. At least that's the way we work it. Frankly I don't want sex if someone is..fulfilling a duty. That happened a couple of times to me in the past. She just didn't feel like it, or was too tired, but didn't want to disappoint me.

I told her, I'd rather wait..until she wanted to , and felt like it, rather than just perform a duty..like it was a household chore.

So I don't know if "duty" is the right word. I don't demand my wife have sex with me, whenever I want, nor does she demand it from me.

[pappyld04]

Sex, as a duty, just isn't worth the BS. No effort, romance, caring, and the only feeling is being used like a fuck doll. Sex should be and usually is given freely by both partners. Sure a marriage may say that you will only look to your partner for your needs but we have no right to demand that they perform on demand. Hell I think a lot of guys are lucky to even be allowed to touch their partner. It's that old give and take thing at work, they can give it if they choose but we cannot take it when we choose!

[mystofpric]

I think, now remember I'm not married (duh, lol), that in the regards of you have agreed that you will only look to your spouse for sexual fullfillment yes, sexis a required part of a marriage. That doesn't mean that everytime your partner wants it you have to give it. Sex is a choice first and foremost, so you have the right to say "not now honey" but eventually you should consider your partners needs. The flip side is that I don't honestly believe that if you are in a commited relationship that if your partner decides that they are no longer interested in sex, for whatever reason, that you have the right to go out and get another partner, that wold be the " for better or worse" clause. If for whatever reason you are unable to sexually fulfill your partner then you should expect them to beupset and frusrated and it is your job to help ease that frustration.

[dogg]

Sex should and usually given freely by both partners.

I agree 100%!

What was really in the back of my mind, when I say is sex a duty of marriage...was manipulation. IOW, I don't think sex should be used as a manipulation tool. One partner withholds to .."punish" the other. I'm not talking about not doing something you are uncomfortable with. I mean, completely withholding all sex...

Thankfully, it has not happened to me, I'm blessed with a wonderful loving wife, but I've heard of it before.

[Amylynn920]

If you love someone it's never a duty. Just my .02

[sun_flower969]

"Marital duties" I think this is actually a saying. Yes I feel it is a responsibility to provide sex for each other. It is Paramount in a marriage. Although it is a fabulous "duty" I do know some women who feel it is a chore and treat it as one of their "to do list" things. You know like, clean the kitchen, do laundry, have sex, do groceries. Sad but true.

[vanilla_bean]

The word "duty" set my teeth on edge right away, but I know what you mean. In truth, I did treat sex like something on the to-do list for awhile. Now I'm always scheming how to get more ! If you have made a commitment to an exclusive relationship, then it is really unfair if one partner opts out of sex for no apparent reason. What is the other partner supposed to do? I don't think that anyone gives up on sex for NO reason though. There's always a reason IMO, but it can be hard to uncover the reasons.

[sun_flower969]

Hey Van! Maybe I missed it previously but how did you get out of that rut and change your mindset? If you don't mind me asking.

[vanilla_bean]

Hey Van! Maybe I missed it previously but how did you get out of that rut and change your mindset? If you don't mind me asking.

I'll try to give you the short answer. In retrospect, I had let some minor resentments build up between us w/o ever talking them through. Add plain old exhaustion with a couple of active kids and a couple of full time jobs, self-esteem issues....things were tense. I also had those girlfriends who laughed about avoiding sex and how great it is when their husbands were out of town and things like that, so I told myself it was normal. I told myself that it's normal for desire to fade and one day the urge would go away completely and my problem would be solved. (EEEK, that was REALLY me).

One day, when the kids were out HH came home and drew the curtains. I knew something was up. He handed my some sex toys that he had bought in the city. My jaw must have hit the floor! This lead to a couple of things. We had a long, serious talk. I knew how hard it would have been for him to walk into that store and get this stuff so I realized how desperate he was. He also told me that he loved me and wanted us to have sex for years and years, so I knew couldn't avoid things anymore. I knew then I couldn't just wait this out until it went away. But the most important thing was that we reaffirmed that we loved each other. I loved him, yet I was causing this pain. I hadn't really, truly been aware of the hurt I was causing. And to someone I loved!

He may have gotten more than he bargained for. Since I've been able to let things go, I can't keep my hands off him! I'm wearing him out, but we're having the time of our lives. Every part of my life is better now!

[Mikayla1]

YES!!! Sexual fullillment for both partners in the relationship is a responsibility that should ideally be taken on and manifested by both partners. Is it a duty? Well, that is just words and semantics. Is it important to share that intimacy with your partner on a REGULAR BASIS - YES!!! It is your responsibility as a husband / wife to ensure your partner is sexually fullfilled - YES!

It is also equally important to inform your spouse if you are not feeling sexually fullfilled. One person can not and should not take the entire burden of sex in a relationship. By sex I mean: cuddling, kissing, flirting, foreplay, oral sex, intercourse - not just 'sex.'

Also, people in committed relationships have this responsiblity too - not just us married folks. Oh sure, you technically 'commit' to being with just that one person, and in that regard the responsibility becomes more intertwined with your marriage - but all couples have that same responsibility once you have become sexually engaged. It is important to give your partner all you can - and be honest and open about it.

That is my $1.42...

[sun_flower969]

I'll try to give you the short answer. In retrospect, I had let some minor resentments build up between us w/o ever talking them through. Add plain old exhaustion with a couple of active kids and a couple of full time jobs, self-esteem issues....things were tense. I also had those girlfriends who laughed about avoiding sex and how great it is when their husbands were out of town and things like that, so I told myself it was normal. I told myself that it's normal for desire to fade and one day the urge would go away completely and my problem would be solved. (EEEK, that was REALLY me).

One day, when the kids were out HH came home and drew the curtains. I knew something was up. He handed my some sex toys that he had bought in the city. My jaw must have hit the floor! This lead to a couple of things. We had a long, serious talk. I knew how hard it would have been for him to walk into that store and get this stuff so I realized how desperate he was. He also told me that he loved me and wanted us to have sex for years and years, so I knew couldn't avoid things anymore. I knew then I couldn't just wait this out until it went away. But the most important thing was that we reaffirmed that we loved each other. I loved him, yet I was causing this pain. I hadn't really, truly been aware of the hurt I was causing. And to someone I loved!

He may have gotten more than he bargained for. Since I've been able to let things go, I can't keep my hands off him! I'm wearing him out, but we're having the time of our lives. Every part of my life is better now!

What a great success story! A few of my friends are just like that too!

[sun_flower969]

That is my $1.42...

Why $1.42? LOL

[dogg]

If you have made a commitment to an exclusive relationship, then it is really unfair if one partner opts out of sex for no apparent reason. What is the other partner supposed to do?

It puts the partner in a tough position. Remain faithful, but frustrated..what to do?

But anyway, you nailed what I was trying to get at ....partner opts out for no apparent reason.

And I also agree...there is ALWAYS a reason...for everything we do or don't do. Although it might not always be apparent, even to us.

There are times I want sex, and my wife doesn't. A few weeks ago, on a Saturday..I really wanted to, she didn't. I asked why, she said all she could think about was all the errands she had to run that day, etc. So she asked me to wait until than night, and she would make it up to me. She promised.

And she did!

The point is, I didn't "force" her, because I felt like it was her duty. Anyone who's been married or in a committed relationship for awhile, can tell you, there has to be compromises. Give and take. Sounds like a cliche', but we know it's true. I could have gotten "misput" cause we didn't have sex right then...and I probably could have pushed the issue and she'd given in. However, by respecting her wishes, putting mine aside for the moment....

We both "came" out better later that night.

[pappyld04]

Is it important to share that intimacy with your partner on a REGULAR BASIS - YES!!!

This is the best statement I see! And VB that word just doesn't sit right for me either!

[froggystyle1977]

Its the word thats the issue, The actual meaning of it some marriages take place where sex is not a possibility so the word Duty is not the word to use.

It is my pleasure to make my husband fullfilled sexually, it is partly my responsibility as his wife. It is also The one thing that bonds us to each other that noone can take away.

It is not my duty it is not a chore I have to do, as it sometimes felt with my ex. (can't finish a Bj well thats your job UGGG) Its not my job its me wanting to let him see how fullfilled he makes me!!!

[dogg]

Sorry about using the word "duty". I agree..responsibility sounds better.

Here's another thought.

If partners in marriage (or committed relationships) always try to put their partners' needs first...and both partners are doing that...

I'd think there wouldn't be many issues, or questions about duty or responsibility.

[chloegirl]

I think it is part of your marital duty...I know there are alot of couples who do stay together without having a fulfilling sex life but there is no way that they are really happy and underneath the surface there will be anger building up that will eventually lead to some major drama. The way I see it is the withholder is just plain blind and selfish and no matter what they might say they really do not see their spouse/partner as the most important person in their life which is how it should be once you make a committment. Sometimes even after tons of conversations, for whatever reasons they may still not even realize or believe how their actions are affecting the other one (especially if you go easy on them and don't make it 100% clear to them how damaging their behavior is to the relationship) and it takes a really close call or the realization that they are going to lose that person for good before they wake up and at that point decide if they are going to put forth the effort to actually be your mate and try to keep you. If you've got a basically good one they WILL make changes and together you can make it work. If they don't then there is no point in hanging around because that's basically just saying "F-you, I don't care how you feel" and why would you waste your life on someone like that? Sometimes you just have to throw down the gauntlet to initiate the transformation.

[sun_flower969]

If one person is holding out on the other without an iron clad reason then as for as I am concerned the one doing without is totally justified in cheating and the other needs to keep their mouth shut and learn to like it! Put out or get out!

WOW... I think there is more to THAT than is written! Sounds like a bad story in there somewhere!!

I think, "the one doing without" would hopefully talk to the SO because they LOVE each other! Doing WHATEVER it takes to try to work things out, go to counseling etc. If they don't do that and then they cheat well I'm sorry, not justified! It is an excuse to get some strange ass... Just saying! If you truly love that person you will try. Some times it is futile and that is the difference. Maybe then they should not be married anymore. Love should be paramount above sex. ALTHOUGH it is a huge part of it, communication is key! You married the person because of who they are to your heart and because you wanted to be with them on every level, not just for sex! It is a hard thing in a marriage when sex goes on the back burner but it is not terminal! It can be fixed if BOTH partners want it to to be... Just my .02.

[sun_flower969]

I wish it were that simple.

You don't think that if BOTH parties want to fix it then they can make it work?

[chloegirl]

Everyone is always spouting off about "communication", but there are people that you can "communicate" with till the cows come home and it still doesn't sink in with them. They may see your lips move but they don't hear or register what you're trying to convey. Threats are not the way to go about it either 'cause that just puts them into aggressive "standoff" mode. Believe me I know 'cause I've tried it all over the years....what did work?...Him getting the scare of his life realizing that I was not just blowing smoke....that there was truly a strong possibility that I was in the works of hooking up and leaving (no need for details). Woke him up real fast to the fact that he didn't want to lose me, he did love me enough to take me seriously, and he has done a 360* in his behavior, attitude, and output. Now is he ever going to be as hot and wild as your fantasy man?...probably not, but after almost 26 years of marriage he has put forth more effort and been more adventurous than he has ever been before and I can live with that!

Bottom line is that sometimes it takes drastice measures for these people to see that if they really love you and want to keep you, they have to give a little too and not just take it for granted that you OWE it to them to stay....You do owe each other fidelity in marriage but if the other person is not living up to their end of the bargain then that changes the whole game (whether it is morally right or not). Anyone who just expects their partner to live like that forever is a bloody fool!

[sun_flower969]

Everyone is always spouting off about "communication", but there are people that you can "communicate" with till the cows come home and it still doesn't sink in with them. They may see your lips move but they don't hear or register what you're trying to convey. Threats are not the way to go about it either 'cause that just puts them into aggressive "standoff" mode. Believe me I know 'cause I've tried it all over the years....what did work?...Him getting the scare of his life realizing that I was not just blowing smoke....that there was truly a strong possibility that I was in the works of hooking up and leaving (no need for details). Woke him up real fast to the fact that he didn't want to lose me, he did love me enough to take me seriously, and he has done a 360* in his behavior, attitude, and output. Now is he ever going to be as hot and wild as your fantasy man?...probably not, but after almost 26 years of marriage he has put forth more effort and been more adventurous than he has ever been before and I can live with that!

Bottom line is that sometimes it takes drastice measures for these people to see that if they really love you and want to keep you, they have to give a little too and not just take it for granted that you OWE it to them to stay....You do owe each other fidelity in marriage but if the other person is not living up to their end of the bargain then that changes the whole game (whether it is morally right or not). Anyone who just expects their partner to live like that forever is a bloody fool!

Sometimes extreme measures are what it takes to make someone to really see the thing right in front of them... Good for you for giving the ultimatum and that it worked!

[vanilla_bean]

Everyone is always spouting off about "communication", but there are people that you can "communicate" with till the cows come home and it still doesn't sink in with them. They may see your lips move but they don't hear or register what you're trying to convey. Threats are not the way to go about it either 'cause that just puts them into aggressive "standoff" mode. Believe me I know 'cause I've tried it all over the years....what did work?...Him getting the scare of his life realizing that I was not just blowing smoke....that there was truly a strong possibility that I was in the works of hooking up and leaving (no need for details). Woke him up real fast to the fact that he didn't want to lose me, he did love me enough to take me seriously, and he has done a 360* in his behavior, attitude, and output. Now is he ever going to be as hot and wild as your fantasy man?...probably not, but after almost 26 years of marriage he has put forth more effort and been more adventurous than he has ever been before and I can live with that!

Bottom line is that sometimes it takes drastice measures for these people to see that if they really love you and want to keep you, they have to give a little too and not just take it for granted that you OWE it to them to stay....You do owe each other fidelity in marriage but if the other person is not living up to their end of the bargain then that changes the whole game (whether it is morally right or not). Anyone who just expects their partner to live like that forever is a bloody fool!

Wow! This is a turnaround. Glad to hear it!

[ginshreve]

QUOTE (iha @ Aug 5 2008, 11:51 AM)

I wish it were that simple.

You don't think that if BOTH parties want to fix it then they can make it work?

I think what Sun is saying is key - BOTH parties have to be willing to make changes to fix the situation. Some would say that if one person makes real changes, then their partner will also have to make some changes to accomodate the changed spouse. But the bottom line is, a person can only change themselves. If both are open to the changes, it is real simple - but when one person is experiencing problems that the other denies, it gets trickier.

I think getting out of a long-term marriage "just" because of unsatisfying sex (if everything else is otherwise satisfactory) may feel for some like cutting and running - or taking the easy way out. Plus if there are children, property, family expectations, serious religous or moral committments, and all the baggage that comes with long term relationships, dissolving a marriage is not as simple as it seems.

Maybe it comes down to a question of how badly someone wants to resolve the issue. For some, leaving a sexless marriage, regardless of the trauma it will cause, is preferable to remaining in the relationship and being unhappy. For others, bearing the burden of the unhappiness is preferable to disappointing or traumatizing the others who have to deal with the fallout of a divorce. Sometimes really good people are the ones who are stuck coping with the unreasonable ones they are married to - but there are always choices, and to choose to stay in a sexless marriage is a valid choice for some.

[dogg]

The late Sam Kennison (comedian) said once to really get revenge on men that your wife/GF may have left you for, is to do *EVERYTHING* for her, to her in bed. That way nobody will ever be "as good".

I see some good advice in there....

do everything to please your mate...and if they are fulfilled with you, they aren't likely to look elsewhere. Just makes good sense.

[sun_flower969]

The late Sam Kennison (comedian) said once to really get revenge on men that your wife/GF may have left you for, is to do *EVERYTHING* for her, to her in bed. That way nobody will ever be "as good".

I see some good advice in there....

do everything to please your mate...and if they are fulfilled with you, they aren't likely to look elsewhere. Just makes good sense.

Not necessarily though... You could be the freak of the world and if he/she still has it in his mind to cheat he will. Some people just always think the grass is greener with someone else or are just on an endless quest for some kind of newness or mind blowing end all be all experience. Usually all they get is a gigantic disappointment!