Men & Women And Today's Role

[Smile4Me]

Answer honestly! I had to write a paper on social culture and norms, and it was so thought-provoking that I wanted to get your opinions on it! Is Dad just as responsible for the kids as Mom is today? Do you think the role of women has changed recently, with more instance of Dad at home and Mom working? Give me your input on the topic

[mailahn97]

To me in these times I don't think it is that the man has to be the breadwinner. I supported my family for about 8 years and made the bulk of the income. My father had issues with it. I told him it was none of his business as long as I was happy that is all that matters. Granted mostly mine was due to a lazy ass man that is slowly getting out of my life.

I feel as long as both are happy it doesn't matter who makes the most and also that men should help just as much around the house and with the children. I see friends of mine that are constantly having this battle with their spouse. They both work 40+ hours out of the house but the man still expects the wife to do it all. Hell he would not be my husband for long as to me that is bullshit.

I can see if you are a stay at home mom then maybe doing the bulk of it but that doesn't mean the husband can't help some.

It is sad how so many just follow past roles and move on. Hell I got in trouble in high school for something like this. I had our health teacher who was also the coach of the football team making comments about how women should be barefoot and pregnant. I called him a male chauvinistic pig and did not feel bad for doing it. He sent me to the principal who in turn agreed with me that he should not have done that.

Just my thoughts and something I feel very strongly about.

[ladylove]

although I've chosen a very traditional role SAHM, and Hubby is the bread winner, I do know 2 families where the Dad is a SAHD, and the mom is the bread winner. It works, both women have always had a much greater earning power then their spouses. I will confess if I had a play group and a dad came with the child, the conversation would probably be different.

I just read a study within the last month that stated the earning gap between men and women is very slight if there still is one.

[sass]

I think there is a perception by some that child-raising is woman's work - probably because most view women as more sympathetic and patient with kids. But I know several dads that are far better at raising children than some mothers.

As for bread-earning, I think women should be able to work and earn the money in the home OR, if both partners agree, she should also be allowed to stay home and raise the kids. Same for the man. I think each family should be able to do what works best for them. A friend of mine and I were talking about this just today. She and I agree that we would be happy staying at home, keeping the house clean, raising kids, grocery shopping, etc., but finances do not allow that for either of us. Although, I must also admit that if I could do that, I would probably want to get back out into the work force before too long. I am willing to test it though.

Point is - roles have changed because now it is "OK" for a dad to stay home and a mom to work. If that is what works for your family, go for it. If your family rather stick with the more traditional roles, that is OK, too.

[Smile4Me]

Very interesting!! Thanks for the input!! LadyLove: That's interesting that you read that study!! I just finished up a college Sociology class that urged me to research different topics surrounding the home and family groups in society and how the roles have changed, and in some cases, reversed. One of the essays I wrote was about social inequality, and how there are still large gaps between minority and female salaries and white male earners. One source said that men still have the potential to earn 30% more than women in jobs of the same applicable merit. I also touched a little on the widening gap between rich and poor and how the middle class in society is slowly dissipating.

I think it interests me because I'm about to graduate college and take on an entry-level job. My husband is planning on going to college directly after he seperates from the military, so the roles we will take on will be reversed. I'm worried that I won't be able to provide for him the way he's provided for me the past few years, especially since "Woman jobs" seem to pay much less (at least from what I've seen so far). I think it's pretty sad that a college graduate would be offered 8 or 9 dollars an hour and be expected to provide anything but the very bare necessities; and even that is a stretch at that kind of pay. Oh well..we shall see I suppose!

[ladylove]

One of the essays I wrote was about social inequality, and how there are still large gaps between minority and female salaries and white male earners. One source said that men still have the potential to earn 30% more than women in jobs of the same applicable merit.

I have never read any study or report that stated that wide (30%)of a gape, however the study indicated a narrow/narrowing gap depending on field between men and women. I haven't read anything as of late on any other comparisons of pay scales.

My personal opinion is; the equality or in-equality depends on what part of the country you live in.

[sass]

...

My personal opinion is; the equality or in-equality depends on what part of the country you live in.

I have not seen any studies on that, but I bet it is true. I live in the good ole south, and God love us, we still have some catching up to do when it comes to equality between genders or races. I do think it is getting better, but I KNOW (because I have seen the minutes from the meetings) that my bosses were prepared to offer a man my current position at a higher rate of pay than they offered it to me for. He was slightly more experienced, in some ways, less in others, but he was not worth as much more as they were willing to offer him.

Historically, in the field I am in (human service non-profit) the boards of directors tend to be dominated by men and the staff tend to be dominated by female. I wish I could say this has changed some, but sadly, in the 20 agencies I work with on a daily basis, this is still the case in all but two. When I talk to people in my field from other parts of the country, the gap seems to be shifting more than it is here.

[Smile4Me]

I agree Ladylove, I have no doubts that those figures change depending on where in the country you live. If you look at census statistics, the average salary (regardless of sex) differs greatly depending on the state and even town that you live in. I know on the top of that list were states like Colorado, which has an average salary of nearly 6 figures per year (90 something and some change). Makes you wonder what the cost of living is like there, compared to here in NC, where the average is only in the mid to upper 40's per year. But another interesting tidbit I found, was that nearly 70% (give or take) of people living at or below poverty are female-headed households...yowsa, that's encouraging.

I definitely agree with MsLayD also; it seems like the south is still trying to catch up with the rest of the nation as far as inequality between men and women is concerned. Obviously I think this is ridiculous! I also think the only women in the workforce making equal to or more than men are corporate executives---now think of the ratio of women corporate execs and male...and it's pretty consistent! Whew, all I know is I'm going to work my tail off trying to get a decent wage/salary...wish me luck, looks like I'll need it, LOL.

[Guest eminatic]

as much as people like to say that the women's movement has come so far, the truth is that in the large picture not much has changed.

[mystofpric]

as much as people like to say that the women's movement has come so far, the truth is that in the large picture not much has changed.

This I HIGHLY disagree with. As a woman working in a male dominated field (that's right, I am my company's ONLY female miner nation-wide!) I work with backwards red neck hillbillies and I am (with the exception of one EXTREMELY narrow minded guy) treated the exact same as everyone else, in fact probably better as I have my own bathroom! LOL I have never actually been denied anything or refused any kind of proper pay for any job i've had because I'm a female. I will say that up here it is VERY common for women to stay at home with the kids and not work, and to some extent it's expected, but when we women choose to break out of those roles, we are also fuly supported except by a rare few.

This has a lot to do with it I think. My generation or women (or some any way) seem to assume that the Women's Lib movement is done and all we have to do is reap the rewards. This isn't so at all. In fact now, more than ever, we need to assert our rights. You have to carry yourself as a storng and able woman equal to her male peers and you will be treated like one. If you walk into the job market and think "well legally they have to treat me equal so they will" you'll be taken advantage of. Like wise if you go out and think "I'm just a girl, and therefore a lesser being" well expect to be treated thusly.

Also, and here is teh biggie, if you feel you are being treated unfairly SPEAK UP! If you are being discrimnated against, or feel that you are you do, legally, have to give your employer a chance to fix the problem. If you officially (paperwork and all) bring it to the attention of the employer and nothing is done then you have the right and responiblity to take it to the attention of state's human rights board. They will investigate, decide if you were wronged and if you were grant you the right to sue (once this happens you've one your case pretty much). If you don't give your employer a chance to correct the situtation , they can easily throw their hands in teh air and say "but i didn't know".

I consider myself the equal of my co-workers and treat them thusly. They return the sentiment. Yeah, I wear baggier clothes to hide my "girly bits" but that's a WHOLE different topic, if I were to get promoted to sales tomorrow, trust me teh hoodies and the baggy jeans would be gone. I wouldn't be wearing skin tight clothes but a touch more feminine any way!

[pappyld04]

I absolutely despise anyone who throws a race or gender card in the hat with no reason. There are no minorities left in the world except maybe some indigenous tribes in other countries so let's please do away with that one. Every person in this country has the opportunity.

In my mind a persons role in this world is to make a dent, do what you can, and try to influence others to make that leap!

[Tyger]

I think it also depends on the family situation. Many parents are single parents, that either get child support, are on some sort of aide, or don't even GET child support. So, it really depends on the individual's situation (the one that has custody of the kids). Heck, the Family Dinamic has been drastcially changing for the last 50 yrs!

[synirr]

I think a lot of getting your fair share in the workplace, as a woman, has to do with attitude. I am basically the only female employee at my workplace right now (there's another girl who only works one day a week, for 6 hours,) and I've learned a few somewhat unpleasant truths about being a woman in a male-dominated workplace... like that sometimes customers don't trust my advice as much as the advice of a male coworker, or that being a cute girl probably had almost just as much to do with my getting the job as my application did (my other female coworker's application? Not so good.) I never think about that though. I don't use my gender as an excuse. I've been able to keep this job and earn the trust of customers and coworkers because I have a wealth of experience and knowledge, and I am good at what I do. I expect to be treated as such.

[pappyld04]

Synirr, respect and rust are earned not given. I have no doubt that you are good at your job, everyone should strive for that. It never comes easily no matter what the gender or race but once you have it people always give that word of mouth! Personally when we go to a shop like yours we seek no specific person so it's more about who we run into first. The person on the floor seeking to assist someone is often the more knowledgable amongst the staff!

[Smile4Me]

Wow, Suzy, what an awesome job!! Kudos to your for being confident enough to pull off working in such a testosterone friendly/male-centered environment..(hahaha backwards hillbilly rednecks, that is awesome). I think many woman would find that extremely stressful. I also agree with Synirr, it's all about attitude. If you come in unsure of yourself, they will walk all over you.

Pappy, just to clear things up, I was referring to "minorities" in more of by-the-textbook sense. I too believe our nation is very diverse and that race isn't quite as important as it was in the past. HOWEVER, by definition, a minority is a person or group of people who have significantly less power over their own future than a "dominant group"..and in that sense....referring to a group as a minority is actually still very correct, as it outlines the various inconsistencies and biases they fall victim to on a daily basis, compared to none other than the white American. Just some food for thought.

Yes, I'm a smartass....apologies ahead of time I can debate with the best of 'em LOL

[mystofpric]

Wow, Suzy, what an awesome job!! Kudos to your for being confident enough to pull off working in such a testosterone friendly/male-centered environment..(hahaha backwards hillbilly rednecks, that is awesome). I think many woman would find that extremely stressful. I also agree with Synirr, it's all about attitude. If you come in unsure of yourself, they will walk all over you.

Pappy, just to clear things up, I was referring to "minorities" in more of by-the-textbook sense. I too believe our nation is very diverse and that race isn't quite as important as it was in the past. HOWEVER, by definition, a minority is a person or group of people who have significantly less power over their own future than a "dominant group"..and in that sense....referring to a group as a minority is actually still very correct, as it outlines the various inconsistencies and biases they fall victim to on a daily basis, compared to none other than the white American. Just some food for thought.

Yes, I'm a smartass....apologies ahead of time I can debate with the best of 'em LOL

So about that marriage proposal.... I'm thinking a fall wedding...

[Smile4Me]

So about that marriage proposal.... I'm thinking a fall wedding...

****Apply British Accent******

Oh yes dahling, that sounds just splended, whatever you want dahling!!!! Shall we add tea and cupcakes to the ceremony as well?

Just one thing though, you may have to deal with me having a man in my life...he's white and furry and walks on four legs, but he's my one true love Hehehhee

[Guest eminatic]

if a woman has sex with too many guys is she put in a certain category? yes

if a woman has a certain occupation is she looked at in a negative way? yes

if a woman does not have kids by a certain age is she viewed in a certain way? yes

if a woman does not start a family or becomes a CEO or other demanding, high status/high paying profession does that carry a negative connotation? yes

what is the first thing people usually go for when they are trying to hit a woman where it hurts? call her a slut/whore etc. make her feel ashamed of enjoying sex.

i know many will be quick to chime in "well i don't view it that way" but when looking at society as a whole, things are still this way. but its like a "dirty secret" or bad word...something taboo we aren't supposed to mention so i'm not even gonna go there...

[ladylove]

if a woman has sex with too many guys is she put in a certain category? yes

if a woman has a certain occupation is she looked at in a negative way? yes

if a woman does not have kids by a certain age is she viewed in a certain way? yes

if a woman does not start a family or becomes a CEO or other demanding, high status/high paying profession does that carry a negative connotation? yes

what is the first thing people usually go for when they are trying to hit a woman where it hurts? call her a slut/whore etc.

i know many will be quick to chime in "well i don't view it that way" but when looking at society as a whole, things are still this way. but its like a "dirty secret" or bad word...something taboo we aren't supposed to mention so i'm not even gonna go there...

Who, other than yourself is going to know how many you slept with, and why would they care? If your happy with your career, who cares what anyone else thinks? Here in the NE having children isn't mandatory, and if you don't want them why not close you eyes to the unkindness? I truly hope no one important in your life is calling you names to hurt you; If they are they aren't worthy of you.

E,

The questions are meant to make you think. They aren't meant to insight a debate. I guess the point here is if you are happy with yourself, to hell with the 'nay sayers'! Surround yourself with people who will appreciate you and your uniqueness. Life is to short to please everyone but yourself.

[Guest eminatic]

well, putting aside the fact that word can EASILY get around whether you want it to or not, why should a woman even HAVE to worry about keeping the truth a secret, when its fine either way for men?

let me pose a hypothetical situation: what if two people performed the exact same action. now lets say the first person receives praise or acceptance from it. now, what if the second person receives harsh judgement, is shunned, etc while fully AWARE that the first person did not receive the same reaction. what if these two people encountered this situation several times a day, everyday? who do you think has the better odds of being more confident in life?

i've never met anyone who is truly unaffected by outside judgement.

[synirr]

Em, I agree... everything you've said is true in general.

Now, is any of that true for me personally? Not really. I don't surround myself with people who feel that way about women. The only people whose opinions are important to me are those who have won my respect, and those people don't think of anyone as an inferior person because of their gender.

I'm very open about my sexuality (hell, my coworkers know I go to sex shops... it has come up in conversation,) I have a job where I'm handling "icky" stuff all day like stinky dead snails and live worms, I'm not planning on having kids and everybody knows it, I'm a biology major who isn't pre-med, my hair is short, my boobs are small, I rarely wear makeup, I curse like a sailor, I have a lot of body mods... and I'm comfortable with that. I'm not trying to be a girly girl, I'm just one of a variety of types of people in the world. I realize I'm not everyone's cup of tea so I don't really take offense on the rare occasion someone says something negative about me or my interests, because I like myself and I'm proud of who I am.

If the people around you are expecting you to be someone you're not... fuck 'em. You need to surround yourself with some new people, ones who appareciate you for who you are.

[mystofpric]

****Apply British Accent******

Oh yes dahling, that sounds just splended, whatever you want dahling!!!! Shall we add tea and cupcakes to the ceremony as well?

Just one thing though, you may have to deal with me having a man in my life...he's white and furry and walks on four legs, but he's my one true love Hehehhee

OMG, I do love you! My true love is 100lbs of pure canine perfection!

[mystofpric]

if a woman has sex with too many guys is she put in a certain category? yes

yes, but mostly by other WOMEN, not so much men.

if a woman has a certain occupation is she looked at in a negative way? yes

I;m not sure what occupations your talkinga bout here, I mean I'm a miner and can we have a show of hands who think this is wrong?

if a woman does not have kids by a certain age is she viewed in a certain way? yes

did you know that the average age (today) for women to start having kids is actually 29? Further more and more women are choosing (yes it is a clear choice) to be single/unwed mothers?

if a woman does not start a family or becomes a CEO or other demanding, high status/high paying profession does that carry a negative connotation? yes

This has been shifting since the 80s at least, more and more women are deciding to have a career first and kids later, if at all!

what is the first thing people usually go for when they are trying to hit a woman where it hurts? call her a slut/whore etc. make her feel ashamed of enjoying sex.

Again, this is something that I notice mostly between women, and not men calling a woman a slut.

i know many will be quick to chime in "well i don't view it that way" but when looking at society as a whole, things are still this way. but its like a "dirty secret" or bad word...something taboo we aren't supposed to mention so i'm not even gonna go there...

I am looking at society as a whole, i think that society is changing. IF i can see it up here in the middle of nowhere I'm shocked you can't seeit in Los Vegas (a little more populated and 'modern' than here). Yeah things are prefect but we're getting there. I seriously think that you, and I really don't mean any offense, are looking for the negitives here. I'm not the most optomistic person but even I can see the changes happening and for the better. Breathe deep hun and take a second look. Things aren't so bad. And yeah I can see it and yeah I can talk about it, it's not taboo it's just not so bad any more.

[pappyld04]

Pappy, just to clear things up, I was referring to "minorities" in more of by-the-textbook sense. I too believe our nation is very diverse and that race isn't quite as important as it was in the past. HOWEVER, by definition, a minority is a person or group of people who have significantly less power over their own future than a "dominant group"..and in that sense....referring to a group as a minority is actually still very correct, as it outlines the various inconsistencies and biases they fall victim to on a daily basis, compared to none other than the white American. Just some food for thought.

Yes, I'm a smartass....apologies ahead of time I can debate with the best of 'em LOL

Don't apologize for being outspoken and opinionated! But you did forget to tack the MALE at the end of the white American! We are no longer a majority!

[pappyld04]

When I was working on workover rigs we rigged up on a well owned by a self-made man. He began his empire with 1 rig, he drilled, his wife in the derrick, and his 2 girls worked floors. This man showed up with a fancy suit, high dollar cowboy hat and alligator boots and we gave him shit most of the day.

About mid-afternoon we had a blowout and this guy jumped out of the truck and onto the floor to help us stab the TIW valve. His wardrobe was ruined. In that one instant he earned our immediate respect! We would have been the same way with his wife or daughters.