Women - Knock It Off!

[ladylove]

Thanks for all the comments Ladies and gents....

OK, here is some answers to some questions that were posed...

Yes, she loves him. She has told me and him that she is completely in love with him. She thinks he is a great man, her best friend, a great dad. She loves him.

She said she still finds him attractive. She has 'attraction' for him, in that she likes to cuddle with him, kiss him (nothing passionate) and be with him.

She told me that she still has a sex drive. When she gets 'the urge' she masturbates. She said she gets aroused, she just doesn't want sex. Not with him, not with anyone. She basically told him (and me) that sex is just not 'her thing' and she feels like she can be intimate with him without the sex. She never gave oral (and that is another subject all together!) and she doesn't want him to watch her masturbate or to be involved in her private time.

She likes to orgasm, she says it feels good. She almost has the 'sex is too much work' mentality.

So, in this situation, I am not sure where to proceed. I have talked until I am blue in the face. She doesn't want to lose him, but she said it would be plain wrong for him to leave because of lack of sex (huh? what?)

I feel soooo bad for my friend. I really don't want them to split up - but come on now....this is just plain ridiculous!

Do you believe she love him romantically? I just don't understand how one could love someone romantically (as opposed to a friend) and not want to share intimacy with them? My thought goes back to the type of love she has for him. Forget what she says, what do you see, what do you know? (those are rhetoric ?'s for you to examine)

[Sunday]

There are a few things I see with this. She says she has a sex drive, gets aroused and mastubrates but doesn't want sex.

Obviously she wants sex, she just doesn't want sex with him. Maybe if she had to stick batteries in him to get him going she would find him more appealing. I think the relationship is doomed. She may claim to love him, but I doubt that she really does.

[ladylove]

That cuts both ways. She wants to change him into a eunuch. Is it because she loves him, or because he provides all the other comforts of being a couple?

great question!

[sun_flower969]

Thanks for all the comments Ladies and gents....

OK, here is some answers to some questions that were posed...

Yes, she loves him. She has told me and him that she is completely in love with him. She thinks he is a great man, her best friend, a great dad. She loves him.

She said she still finds him attractive. She has 'attraction' for him, in that she likes to cuddle with him, kiss him (nothing passionate) and be with him.

She told me that she still has a sex drive. When she gets 'the urge' she masturbates. She said she gets aroused, she just doesn't want sex. Not with him, not with anyone. She basically told him (and me) that sex is just not 'her thing' and she feels like she can be intimate with him without the sex. She never gave oral (and that is another subject all together!) and she doesn't want him to watch her masturbate or to be involved in her private time.

She likes to orgasm, she says it feels good. She almost has the 'sex is too much work' mentality.

So, in this situation, I am not sure where to proceed. I have talked until I am blue in the face. She doesn't want to lose him, but she said it would be plain wrong for him to leave because of lack of sex (huh? what?)

I feel soooo bad for my friend. I really don't want them to split up - but come on now....this is just plain ridiculous!

I guarantee you it is about her self esteem! She prefers solo because she doesn't want to think about how she looks she can fantasize... When she is with him it is too challenging to focus on what's happening because she feels self conscious. Never mind that she doesn't want him to watch her!!

I am willing to bet on it! I felt like this in the past... No more though! ...and the no oral thing... HANGUPS or again insecurity about her performance!

[ladylove]

I guarantee you it is about her self esteem! She prefers solo because she doesn't want to think about how she looks she can fantasize... When she is with him it is too challenging to focus on what's happening because she feels self conscious. Never mind that she doesn't want him to watch her!!

I am willing to bet on it! I felt like this in the past... No more though! ...and the no oral thing... HANGUPS or again insecurity about her performance!

I don't agree here. Mikayla states, they had a very active satisfying sex life 'once upon a time'.

[Mikayla1]

EM: OK, yes, I agree that people should not try to change each other - or feel forced to BE changed. However, she wasn't like this before. She was crazy sexual before. When they first met, she told me 'I can't get enough of his dick!' OK, so that lasted a few years of dating then a year or so of marriage. IT stopped way before kids, so it wasn't hormonal or because of 'mommydom.'

Also, he hired the PI because of all the years of sexual problems he was SURE she was cheating. She withrew from his questions about sex, and basically said, 'stop asking, you ain't gettin' any!'

I am sure that she is comfortable with him - as a friend. I am sure she loves him. I am not buying that she has romantic love for him. If she did, even if she didn't want sex, she would eventually.

Oh, and by the way, she likes sex. She told me, 'I like sex, I like to orgasm, I just don't want to.'

This is not a cut and dry thing. Someone, somwhere is not being honest. I just know that there are so many women like this, and it really pisses me off!

Sex IS an important and healthy part of marriage. IF it wasn't, then why get married? I mean really. You can be best friends, you can be a lot of things to each other, but sex is something that everyone needs. Yes, everyone needs it, even if they don't admit it. Statistics show that women and men who have sex on a regular basis have better quality of life, are healthy, have less depression, lose more weight when dieting, are better and more patient parents, have more friends and less stress. If that is NOT A REASON to enjoy a healthy sex life, then hope about it feels AWESOME and it is a great way to be intimate and close to your partner!

Who wouldn't want that???

[Mikayla1]

Oh, one more thing. Joe's wife is gorgeous! She is active, does yoga, has nice features, is not under or over weight. While this does not guarantee that she has good self esteem, I think that it helps her to have positive self esteem.

I think, personally, that she is lazy and just wants to have her alone time and that is all. My friend doesn't like 'wham bam' sex (amazing for a guy, really) and she seems uninterested in putting in the effort.

[sun_flower969]

Well I am baffled...

[mailahn97]

Do you believe she love him romantically? I just don't understand how one could love someone romantically (as opposed to a friend) and not want to share intimacy with them? My thought goes back to the type of love she has for him. Forget what she says, what do you see, what do you know? (those are rhetoric ?'s for you to examine)

I see your point here and really think it is more of a love between friends then of romantic or intimately involved partners. It is said to see this happening.

[mailahn97]

Sex IS an important and healthy part of marriage. IF it wasn't, then why get married? I mean really. You can be best friends, you can be a lot of things to each other, but sex is something that everyone needs. Yes, everyone needs it, even if they don't admit it. Statistics show that women and men who have sex on a regular basis have better quality of life, are healthy, have less depression, lose more weight when dieting, are better and more patient parents, have more friends and less stress. If that is NOT A REASON to enjoy a healthy sex life, then hope about it feels AWESOME and it is a great way to be intimate and close to your partner!

Who wouldn't want that???

I agree that sex is something that everyone needs. People claim that masturbation can take care of their needs. I am sorry I don't believe that one for a damn minute. There is only one person you are gonna even attempt to kid with that one and that is yourself. Sex helps on so many levels. I agree when I am having sex regularly I am MUCH happier, more patient and just have a very good overall view of things. Yet when I am not I notice I become more judgemental, bitter(at times), quick to become angered and even don't sleep as well. When I haven't had sex for a while I notice I sleep more restlessly and can't unwind.

I just don't get it and that he isn't the wham bam type she is very lucky. I went from that type to someone that loved to take their time and enjoy it. Yes we had some times where we both just wanted that quick release first, but then onto the real fun.

[sass]

you shouldn't have to sacrifice who you are for someone who claims to "love" you. if they love you then they shouldnt want you to change who you are.

This may be said later in the thread - don't have time to read all the way through now, but I want to say that I 100% that a person should not have to change who they are in a relationship. He is a man, a healthy man who needs sex (as most men do) and his wife gave it and enjoyed it (from what I have read so far) in the beginning but then SHE DID change. That is not fair to him. If she didn't like sex and she told him that from Day 1 and he thought he could change her, like so many people think they can do just with love, then I would say he is in the wrong. But that does not seem to be the case.

I had a very good friend, OK, he was a bit more than a friend, and I have never talked about him on here, but he was in a situation like "Joe". He loved his wife but they would go months (more than 4) without anything. He went on for years like this and never once cheated on her - he just figured all women were like this I guess. Then we met and he met some other people and he realized that what he was having to live with was not right. He tried and tried to talk to her but then he came to his wit’s end - he could not take it anymore. Not just because of the physical need of having sex, but he didn't see how she could really love him and still treat him like she did. He needed sex. He needed intimacy. He needed to feel like a man and a husband. I think most men have these needs and a lot of women do not understand that for men, sex seems almost as important as food, water and shelter - seriously. I firmly believe it is a need. Anyway, long story short, he and I never had a physical relationship because he could not and would not cheat on his wife, but he did finally get the courage to leave her. When he told her he was leaving, she broke down. She admitted how badly she had treated him and begged him to stay, vowing to do better. Last I heard, they were still working on rebuilding their relationship. He said that she said she never realized how important it was to him and how she had made him feel. Even though he had tried to talk to her about it dozens of times before, it took him packing his bags to wake her up.

I wish them the very best, just as I do Mik's friend, but it is a shame that people who love each other could treat each other this way.

[mystofpric]

I wish them the very best, just as I do Mik's friend, but it is a shame that people who love each other could treat each other this way.

That would be because someone isn't as "in love" as she says she is.

[Guest eminatic]

women do not spell love S-E-X it is possible that she does love him, but thinks of love and sex as two different things. if sex is that important to him then maybe they need to re-evaluate their relationship

[Mikayla1]

women do not spell love S-E-X it is possible that she does love him, but thinks of love and sex as two different things. if sex is that important to him then maybe they need to re-evaluate their relationship

I take a little bit of offense at this comment, only because it implies, in a way, that women (or men) who hold sex on a high level of importance are in the wrong. Of course sex is not love - BUT, you really can't have a completely whole and fullfilling marriage without intimacy and, yes, sex.

Of course love and sex are two different things. Hence how you can have sex with persons you don't love, and sometimes might not even like. However, when a man and a woman get together in a MARRIAGE, and promise to be FAITHFUL to the other person, forsaking (sexually) all others - then that little contract (and emotional promise) entails having sex!

I am not suggesting that this means that because you have a marriage certificate that you are obligated to have sex. However, if you claim to be 'in love' with your partner, and he or she is good to you and you are friends and attracted to each other, then there is no reason NOT to have sex!

Of course sex is important to him Em, you are in the minority in your thinking that sex is not important in a relationship. He LOVES her, he is MARRIED to her, he is ATTRACTED to her - he needs and wants and desires sex! This is normal, and healthy and I agree, he should be evaluating whether he wants to continue with this marriage - cause in my opinion, she has bailed on him emotionally and intimately!

[ladylove]

I take a little bit of offense at this comment, only because it implies, in a way, that women (or men) who hold sex on a high level of importance are in the wrong. Of course sex is not love - BUT, you really can't have a completely whole and fullfilling marriage without intimacy and, yes, sex.

Of course love and sex are two different things. Hence how you can have sex with persons you don't love, and sometimes might not even like. However, when a man and a woman get together in a MARRIAGE, and promise to be FAITHFUL to the other person, forsaking (sexually) all others - then that little contract (and emotional promise) entails having sex!

I am not suggesting that this means that because you have a marriage certificate that you are obligated to have sex. However, if you claim to be 'in love' with your partner, and he or she is good to you and you are friends and attracted to each other, then there is no reason NOT to have sex!

Of course sex is important to him Em, you are in the minority in your thinking that sex is not important in a relationship. He LOVES her, he is MARRIED to her, he is ATTRACTED to her - he needs and wants and desires sex! This is normal, and healthy and I agree, he should be evaluating whether he wants to continue with this marriage - cause in my opinion, she has bailed on him emotionally and intimately!

I agree with you completely.

Is there any chance at all she may have discovered she is bi or gay? Otherwise, she's changed part of the foundation or their marriage, he shouldn't have to live with that.

[sass]

... she has bailed on him emotionally and intimately!

Exactly.

[dscn]

em you could be right that most women don't spell love with sex but she has to understand most men do and he thinks mostly with the head between his leg and for a man is sex almost like love for him because your partner excepts you and want to be intimate with you. It's like if you go in a relationship with a guy and you don't want sex that is something you will need to tell that person at the beginning because chances are you problably won't see him again because sex is a vitale part of a relationship because that bond brings closeness and itimatacy.

[shdowulf39]

I'm not to sure she has bailed on him emotionally.Physically she certainly has for some reason.It's not like she doesn't like sex(because she still self indulges).For some reason she just doesn't want that part of closeness anymore.

As we all know women and men look upon physical intimacy in different perspectives.It's much easier for a man to have recreational sex(sex without any emotion involved)than it is for a women.For most women there has to be more than physical attraction.For some reason she doesn't want that particular involvement anymore.He needs to find out why.Be it through a good sit down heart to heart talk with her,or through counceling.Once he knows all her reasons for not having that physical intimacy anymore,and wherher or not she will change.Then he has to make a very hard decision on whether or not to stay in the relationship any longer.

[Sunday]

It's about his need for intimacy. He probably wants to feel close to her again as much as he wants to fuck. This explains it from a man's point of view pretty well.

http://www.marriageintimacy.com/intimacy-i...elationship.htm

[Mikayla1]

They have seen a counselor before - one two separate occassions for a few months at a time. They couselor suggested a marital retreat, masturbation nights, massages, going away on a trip. Joe was on board, she was not. I even offered to watch their kids when he books a B & B for a weekend, she was 'too busy' to go.

I think that the article you linked Sunday is a good one. However, Joe is a man who will talk about his feelings, he will talk about what is wrong. He tells me, he tells her, he told the counselors. How much talking is he expected to take, really?

I am all for talking and I know that women do view sex differently (most of them do anyway) but that doesn't mean that he should have to talk for the rest of his marriage and not get sex!

Of course he wants it! I can relate, there is no way in H E L L I am going to go more than a few days without sex. No way. If my hubby were withholding....well, then .....I think that there would be a LOT of talking and some action.

All I am saying is, there are some women who simply withhold for whatever reason. They think that their man should just accept this. I disagree. I think both men and women are entitled to be happy in life, and sex is a part of that happiness in a marriage.

[ladylove]

Sunday, very good article....

Mikayla, I think she's just not admitting something to her husband, you and possibly herself at this point....

[littlefriend]

women do not spell love S-E-X it is possible that she does love him, but thinks of love and sex as two different things. if sex is that important to him then maybe they need to re-evaluate their relationship

You are correct. Love doesn't spell sex, but we are not talking about two people dating and the man using love=sex to just get laid. We are talking about a married couple and YES, sex IS part of marriage!! Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to study on what marriage really is. It is not just a wedding, but a life long commitment to each other. Most Christians believe that sex is SAVED for marriage, so that shows what a BIG deal it is to a married couple. That is the true gift spouses can give each other.

To make it sound in this situation that he is just trying to "get some" is just not the case. This is a VERY serious issue in a married couples life.

[chloegirl]

I think there is some kind of disconnection there in the way each sees the reality of their sexual relationship. The fact that she can and does get off without him kind of proves it. Maybe her problem is that he is not able to get her off (or she is not able to get off with him) and because she does love and care about him she is just not able to communicate that to him because she doesn't want to hurt him, but after all this time the futility of having sex and never reaching that release is just too much work and too painful to go there so it's just easier to block that part of the relationship off. In the beginning years of the relationship you are desperately in love and hopeful and willing to make excuses to yourself for each time it doesn't "work". She may have tried in her own little ways to communicate the failure but not been able to bring herself to actually come right out and lay it on the line and even if she didn't actually fake a Meg Ryan type of orgasm, he would get off and totally miss the cues and fact that she really did not, he just assumed she was just as satisfied as he was and so the comments about "we used to have a great sex life" are true to him but to her it was never great and she's just given up on it. He talks about loving sex and doing it all for her and I'm sure he does BUT maybe he's just not really doing it well and he's just not getting her off. You know what I mean....there is more to a touch and a lick than just the mechanics of it. For it to have any erotic effect the giver must really be into all aspects of it...to enjoy the feel and taste under your hands AND to enjoy and read the response that those caresses bring forth from the receiver. There are alot of people who go thru the motions but totally miss that "connection" of give and take and so their efforts are kind of like a little boy poking and prodding an earthworm he found or something. He thinks he's doing it all because he touched or licked her but he may not have really been doing it in a way that made her feel that not only was he totally relishing every moment of it and her but also not even really hitting the marks, and she couldn't bring herself to communicate this to him, and so each encounter left her unable to let go. Deep inside she may have alot of resentment built up that he didn't pick up on it, do it right, etc. and that freezes her up even more. He is totally oblivious to the turmoil swirling around in her.....all he see's is that she is withholding herself from him, but he can't read her mind and she won't open up and they are both miserable with their sex life! After several years of that the patterns of their encounters become ingrained and so even though they may have had periods where they tried with counseling or whatever to get past it, in the end the old thought patterns and ingrained responses just automatically took back over and they are right back where they started. It's basically like everyone has always said....communication is key!!! But sometimes between some people there is just this disconnnection, they are unable to come right out and speak their needs or unable to accept that they may be missing something, and no matter how much you talk it out and try they just can't see or accept it or get past the old patterns no matter how much they love each other. And the years go by........

[mystofpric]

women do not spell love S-E-X it is possible that she does love him, but thinks of love and sex as two different things. if sex is that important to him then maybe they need to re-evaluate their relationship

I don't think MOST HUMAN BEINGS spell love like that, I mean it's a second grade spelling word. More to the point though love does actually involve sex. Based on your posts from when you were with your ex, you wanted to please him and you seemed to enjoy sex then. So was that wrong? Was it all a lie you told yourself and your ex? This woman very clearly as said she enjoys sex. She likes to get off. She just doesn't want sex with her husband any more. BIG problem!

Sex and romance do go hand in hand. Ever heard the phrase "making love"? When being that exposed and the close to your partner is just as important as the actual sex it's self? Like Lillie said, if sex was an important part of marriage then why do so many religions want it saved until the marriage bed?

[Guest eminatic]

I don't think MOST HUMAN BEINGS spell love like that, I mean it's a second grade spelling word. More to the point though love does actually involve sex. Based on your posts from when you were with your ex, you wanted to please him and you seemed to enjoy sex then. So was that wrong? Was it all a lie you told yourself and your ex? This woman very clearly as said she enjoys sex. She likes to get off. She just doesn't want sex with her husband any more. BIG problem!

Sex and romance do go hand in hand. Ever heard the phrase "making love"? When being that exposed and the close to your partner is just as important as the actual sex it's self? Like Lillie said, if sex was an important part of marriage then why do so many religions want it saved until the marriage bed?

oh please, spare me the attitude

also for those who keep using religion in the defense that sex is REQUIRED, most religions also say that the ONLY reason you can have sex is to produce children- NOT for pleasure or love.

"was it all a lie you told yourself and your ex?"

yes, as explained in great detail in numerous posts.

obviously what the expression means is that sex does not equate to love and vice versa....but yea...go ahead and take it literally if you want....love is also a second grade spelling word, FYI

love and sex may be linked for YOU but that doesn't mean your definition of love should be shoved on everyone else.