When Do You Call It Quits?

[Mikayla1]

Some of you may remember a post I made a few months ago about my male friend whose wife just said she doesn't want to have sex anymore - period. She was just not interested. It pissed me off cause I have had too many stories about women just 'giving it up' and not trying to keep the sex in their marriages.

Well, recently I had a PM from a woman who said that her man told her pretty much the same thing as my friend's wife - he was just not interested in sex anymore. He had mild ED issues and apparently, found it too much effort to go through the effort to get aroused and stay aroused - or - in the alternative, to get her off in other ways (toys, tongue, fingers).

So, what the heck is up? I mean, I do not have a perfect sex life. It has waxed and weaned throughout our marriage. My hubby had ED (I guess you always 'have' it, but not we deal with it differently), we have worked at keeping it hot, new and exciting. So, why don't other couples?

I can not recount the # of people who email me in this situation. How many wives just want oral - then a quick fuck - then bed. How many men won't do oral on their partners, but want blowjobs. How many couples go YEARS without sex. The numbers seem to be growing and the solutions don't seem to be coming.

So, I have to ask - how long would you stay in a relationship that had NO sex or really bad sex? How long would you try to have conversations or read books or try to change things before you would just say ENOUGH - I NEED SOME SEX!!!

Any and all comments are wanted!

[mailahn97]

For me for so long I really didn't know what was normal. My husband was the only man I was ever with so I just thought it was normal over time for the sex to go away or happen on a rare moment. I also went through some physical abuse via bondage from him a few years into our marriage to the point I had to have surgery.

I tried so many things from lingerie, dinners, weekends away and such but none of it worked. I would talk to him and he would say he wants it to change but it never did. With this my self esteem took a nose dive because I kept thinking what is wrong with me. To him when we did have sex it was at the most a total of 15 minutes from when foreplay began to when he was hoping out of the bed to get in the shower. Most times I was completely unsatisfied so I would just lay there and cry.

Up until 1/08 I had never told anyone what happened to me. At that point only one person knew and that was my best friend. The rest thought I got hurt playing softball. I had surgery and very horrible nightmares that I worked through. He did try on two other occasions in the the last few years to push himself on me which brought those nightmares back for a bit.

With this sex might have happened once every few months and that was if I was lucky and I had to push him a lot to get it. I started growing tired of being turned down. Well I had found out about the summer of 2007 that he had cheated but couldn't get proof of it. This was just of people telling me. So at that point we started having problems. in Nov 07 I found proof. He didn't consider what I found cheating. He was in another womans bedroom with her tied up clothed and naked and had taken pictures of her. I am sorry to me this is the beginnings of cheating and I was done. We decided we were getting seperated. I was done dealing with this. My self esteem had been killed enough. He got the thrill out of bondage and pics but not the actual act.

Finally I said the hell with it and was full of anger and hurt. We both decided we lived our own lives but didn't bring it into our home. I was a stay at home mom and our daughter was the first concern. So I decided to put an ad on Craigslist. I never thought I would actually go through with it. I clearly stated I was not the one night stand type but of course I still got the idiots, but I did get very lucky and find a very sweet man.

He helped me work through so much and realize so much. I didn't deserve what I was going through. He helped me start to talk about what was done to me years ago. He sat patiently for quite a while when I was telling what happened which was very difficult. He showed me that I deserved to be loved and how to be a sexual being. I didn't know much. I was very sheltered, but with that then I found TT and my new life began.

Yes it is still a work in progress and I am still in the process of getting everything completed closed with the idiot that caused my issues but I have realized I will be happy and I am working towards that. I have realized no matter how much people tell you that you need to leave someone...you aren't going to do it or it isn't going to work. You have to want to do it for you. My family has told me for years to call it quits and I didn't. Now I have but it was on my terms and that is the key factor.

This relationship that I had found showed me that yes there are men out there that enjoy romance, foreplay, sex, cuddling and listening to their partner. He is also my best friend. I always thought that I must be completely wrong and that no man is into those things. Sorry I did get a little off beat with this and ramble some.

[sun_flower969]

So, I have to ask - how long would you stay in a relationship that had NO sex or really bad sex? How long would you try to have conversations or read books or try to change things before you would just say ENOUGH - I NEED SOME SEX!!!

Any and all comments are wanted!

I know what you mean. My H and I are the freaks in my circle of friends. I see many factors in other relationships that seem to make sex stagnant.

Inexperience... they just don't know any better! The sex is OK but not mindblowing so it is something they just do from time to time and they have no idea how great it could be.

HANGUPS! I think that for me is the biggest reason I see. I used to be pretty hung up too. (no really!) Feeling things like, "Why are you always after me for sex, is that all you think about? I am a person too!!!" and yadda... like sex is a bad thing! Those thoughts, I feel come from upbringing and other factors that influence your character. Religion has an affect too...

If I were in an unsatisfying sexual relationship, and I truly loved the person, I would work my hardest communicating and trying things until it was where, in my mind, it should be. I would give my SO the chance to work on things with me and if things didn't change, or he didn't seem motivated or whatever... I would most likely start thinking about counseling and separation. It would take a while to get to the point of realization, that things just were not going to change. ...but I would say I'd give it a good year, or so, from whence the first "talk" happened. Sometimes that's what it takes to make things change, for someone to have a wake up call and realize they could lose their partner!

anyway just my .02

[Guest eminatic]

no sex i could handle indefinitely but bad sex or forced sex i would put my foot down immediately.

[ticklemefunny]

So, I have to ask - how long would you stay in a relationship that had NO sex or really bad sex? How long would you try to have conversations or read books or try to change things before you would just say ENOUGH - I NEED SOME SEX!!!

well, we've gone without sex now for weeks. Anytime i DO get it-- it's initiated by me. He is just not interested. I started to think it was me, I dont have the best self-body image at all. I've talked to him about it, I've told him when we are doing it (yeah- i've had to schedule it) and nothing has changed. Having sex with someone who doesn't want to is a real turn off.

My marriage in and of itself is a complete sham. I'm not happy with him, and he's obviously not happy with me. We have been together for 14 years, we have kids, a house, car payments, yadda yadda. So its more convienence than anything else.

I haven't ventured out to have sex with other men YET, but it is going to happen. I've even told him I am going to cheat on him. He either doesn't believe me, or doesn't care.

So the longest I think I can go is 6 months. my b.o.b. is a fine companion sometimes, but I like to be touched and kissed too.

[sun_flower969]

So the longest I think I can go is 6 months. my b.o.b. is a fine companion sometimes, but I like to be touched and kissed too.

As well you SHOULD and deserve to have those things! I saw your picture! Aint nothing wrong with you girl and don't let him make you feel that way!

Have you guys talked about any of this? The being unhappy part. Do you want to work things through?

[Mikayla1]

WOW....OK, honey...let me see if I can lend some insight. First, I understand how body image plays into you not wanting to initiate sex. If HE initiates it, it sort of reinforces that you are desireable. When he doesn't, it enforces the other thought. All I can say about that is, you do have to have a positive self image for YOURSELF. Every woman is beautiful in her own way - heavy, skinny, big boobs, small boobs - we are all beautiful. You do need to find that interest in yourself so that you can be a positve role model for your kids and so that you can feel good about yourself. I do understand what it is like to have to schedule sex and not have your partner intereed in it. That is a big let down I am sure.

You say your marriage is a 'sham.' Does that mean you are not even friends? Do you have issues besides sexual ones? I am a firm believer in being friends too - which means, trying to understand if there are other issues that have nothing to do with you that causes the sexual rift.

Now, if you are not friends, not lovers and not really sharing anything, then there may be an issue.

When you say that your hb doesn't 'care' if you have sex with other people, do you mean he really doesn't care? Or, that he pretends not to care? Did he say, 'go, do it, oh well.' I mean, he may just not be reacting to the threat of it.

You are right, having sex with a BOB is fine for a quick fix, but it certainly won't last a lifetime. Do you really think that having sex with a stranger would help? You will have the personal touch, but where is the connection? I am sure you want more than a booty call, right?

Have you thought about counseling? Marital counseling can be a Godsend. Before you wait the 6 months and leave him or have an affair, perhaps you should try that route.

Now, if he is unwilling and things don't change - then by all means, LEAVE. I think people stay in relationships for all the wrong reasons (kids, money, commitments) - what about yourself? What about living unhappily for the rest of your life? You need to think of that.

Please, feel free to comment back. I hope my response was not too harsh.

[SensualWoman]

I say at least have a friendship going, even if sex isn't all that there, at least you enjoy eachothers company and talking with them. I NEED to have sexual play in my relationship, I would go crazy if there was none. Now that doesn't mean that I'm going to leave him because there isn't any, just that I wouldn't be as happy. I would say that after two months I would be VERY concerned and have a talk about possibly having to leave the relationship before there is a point where I let myself get too used to it (although I don't know how that could happen). If all that's going for us is friendship, then I will be his friend, not his room-mate.

[makasha1]

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So, I have to ask - how long would you stay in a relationship that had NO sex or really bad sex? How long would you try to have conversations or read books or try to change things before you would just say ENOUGH - I NEED SOME SEX!!!

Good question, Mikayla. It invites introspection.

The question I have is....Do you throw away forty years of history and tear a family apart for sex?

Talking doesn't work, some minds are closed. So do you have a fling and hope you don't get caught and then live with the guilt? Or do

just go on living with peaceful coexistence and accept your lot in life.

This may sound kind of scattered but I'm typing while I think. I don't expect any solutions but thanks for letting me vent.

[Mikayla1]

You are always welcome to vent, complain, ask, discuss....that is what the forum is for!

Here are my thoughts on this. 40 years is a LONG time to be with someone. How many years have been fantastic years and how many, not so much? How many years have been sexless? How many years have you been the best of friends?

People always say 'it is just sex' - or - do I end a relationship based on sex alone? Lack of sex is NEVER the only problem. It is always a symptom of another issue, a deeper issue. Sex is not jsut an 'act' - sex is intimacy. Sex is connecting and being with a partner. Sex is a give and take; a pleasure receiving and a pleasure giving. Sex is the important glue that can keep a couple together. When there is no sex, there is no intimacy, not truly.

Now, I know some would argue that sex can not be the only 'glue' in a relationship. What about friendship? Yes, that is true. Hopefully you marry your best friend. Hopefully you are friends. However, why marry that person and not have sex? Seriously. Why not have that intimacy in a marriage? Or, perhaps the intimacy WAS there, and now is gone. The much more common situation. Then what? What do you do when what you had is now lost? You try to regain it - or rebuild it - or retrain. However, what if it doesn't work? What then? Are you supposed to spend the rest of your life without it?

Sex is a good thing. It helps the body and the heart. It helps to satisfy urges, fights depression and illness and overall is a mood enhancer. Conversely, lack of sex is a depressant, and can cause a myriad of issues from illness to depression. Why take out the sex? Why live without it.

Then there is the issue of what happens if a partner is struck ill, gets in an accident and is paralyzed, or for whatever reason can not have sex? Do you leave him/her because of that? Is it FAIR to that partner to be left because of this? In that situation, it really is a whole new ballgame because while I personally would understand that my partner needed that stimulation, and if I were totally unable to give it, I would know why he may look elsewhere - but many feel obligated to stay. Why? Why be obligated? That is a personal choice to stay in that situation.

However, that is really not the situation we are discussing, is it? We are not talking about persons who have illnesses or have had accidents. We are talking about people who choose to take sex off the agenda. Just take it away. 'So sorry love, you don't get sex any longer.'

In that situation, I think when you have exhausted all resources, have read all the books, have had tons of conversations, have talked about it, sought counseling, tried to get your partner to see thigns your way - then it is time to say E N O U G H. I am WORTH MORE!!!

That is just my $1.02

[sass]

I think this question is one of those that don’t have a "one-size-fits-all" answer.

When I was a teen, my mother was trying to tell me that I did not need to have sex with a boy if he really cares about me, and that I didn't need sex. She went on to tell me that she and my father had not had sex in years. Talk about TMI!!!! But my point is, she apparently was willing to live many of her final years without sex.

However, I also remember my parents fighting A LOT when I was growing up and I remember often wondering why they didn't just split up. Thinking back, it makes a lot so sense now - they were both miserable and I picked up on that. But I know for a fact that neither strayed from their marriage vows - they stayed together through good times and bad for over 40 years.

Could I do it? I don't know. I guess we don't really know what we can tolerate until we face it. I have always said to friends/co-workers/etc. who acted like they "have" to have a partner, that if you need love, get a dog, for everything else a man can do there are toys. So my answer would be that enough is enough when the frustrations and unhappiness (whether because of no sex or whatever) out-weigh the good and happiness of the relationship.

[Sunday]

Then there is the issue of what happens if a partner is struck ill, gets in an accident and is paralyzed, or for whatever reason can not have sex? Do you leave him/her because of that? Is it FAIR to that partner to be left because of this? In that situation, it really is a whole new ballgame because while I personally would understand that my partner needed that stimulation, and if I were totally unable to give it, I would know why he may look elsewhere - but many feel obligated to stay. Why? Why be obligated? That is a personal choice to stay in that situation.

Maybe it's just me, but when I love someone I want to share their hardships. In this situation doing without sex would be one way to do that. I wouldn't look at staying and becoming celibate as an obligation, it would be an act of love.

[Mikayla1]

Maybe it's just me, but when I love someone I want to share their hardships. In this situation doing without sex would be one way to do that. I wouldn't look at staying and becoming celibate as an obligation, it would be an act of love.

I agree. However, I am a realist. Being only 38 years old, if I were unable to have sex (totally unable) and my husband was not willing to adapt to a manual / oral only lifestyle, then I would understand his needing to leave or go elsewhere.

I also think that in many of these situations without the trauma, there is NO sexual contact - oral or otherwise - so at least in the aforementioned situation there would still be intimacy and love (at least in my version)

[ladylove]

I agree. However, I am a realist. Being only 38 years old, if I were unable to have sex (totally unable) and my husband was not willing to adapt to a manual / oral only lifestyle, then I would understand his needing to leave or go elsewhere.

I also agree. However I'm not sure I could be so enlightened as to not have hurt feelings, feelings of unrest and inadequacy if my husband was unable to adapt, and went elsewhere.

[Sunday]

I also agree. However I'm not sure I could be so enlightened as to not have hurt feelings, feelings of unrest and inadequacy if my husband was unable to adapt, and went elsewhere.

Too Timid has illuminated the many different thoughts and attitudes people have about sex. I know now that there are people who truly can accept "it's only sex" and divorce sex from love and intimacy. I'm not sure whether to admire them or pity them.

In my mind sex, love, intimacy are all too interconnected to accept it. I can, and have, had sex with women I didn't love, but it isn't half the experience of sharing physical intimacy with the woman you adore. It just wouldn't be worth it.

[Mikayla1]

Too Timid has illuminated the many different thoughts and attitudes people have about sex. I know now that there are people who truly can accept "it's only sex" and divorce sex from love and intimacy. I'm not sure whether to admire them or pity them.

In my mind sex, love, intimacy are all too interconnected to accept it. I can, and have, had sex with women I didn't love, but it isn't half the experience of sharing physical intimacy with the woman you adore. It just wouldn't be worth it.

This is completely true. Sex with someone whom you love is TEN TIMES better than sex with someone whom you just like. I do agree. I too agree that I would have hurt feelings if my husband went elsewhere for his sexual satisfaction in that sitaution.

However, I stick to my guns. I believe that people need the intimacy that comes with sex - and when it is not there - and it is because one partner wants to deny the other - then I feel there is a reason to think about ending a relationship.

We are talking about the blantant denial of effection (actually, it is legally a grounds for divorce, 'alienation of affection') - so when a partner does this, is it expected to stay forever without sex because you love that person? What if you find another person to love who also loves sex?

[Sunday]

This is completely true. Sex with someone whom you love is TEN TIMES better than sex with someone whom you just like. I do agree. I too agree that I would have hurt feelings if my husband went elsewhere for his sexual satisfaction in that sitaution.

However, I stick to my guns. I believe that people need the intimacy that comes with sex - and when it is not there - and it is because one partner wants to deny the other - then I feel there is a reason to think about ending a relationship.

We are talking about the blantant denial of effection (actually, it is legally a grounds for divorce, 'alienation of affection') - so when a partner does this, is it expected to stay forever without sex because you love that person? What if you find another person to love who also loves sex?

I was responding to, "Then there is the issue of what happens if a partner is struck ill, gets in an accident and is paralyzed, or for whatever reason can not have sex?"

As you've said (I think it was you) if a partner is fully capable and just doesn't want to be physically intimate lack of sex is a symptom of a much bigger problem. Life is too short to put up with that. I'd get to the root of the problem or get out of the relationship.

[sun_flower969]

Maybe it's just me, but when I love someone I want to share their hardships. In this situation doing without sex would be one way to do that. I wouldn't look at staying and becoming celibate as an obligation, it would be an act of love.

I think that is an incredibly beautiful and sweet sentiment! However it takes a very STRONG person to deal with that day in and day out. Facing temptation, feeling a need that is not being met... loneliness etc.

It's not an easy road. You stay out of devotion, commitment but you suffer loss. It's not like you would never think about it. Time would take it's toll. You ignore your own human need to stay faithful but it is still there! I give anyone credit who could do it and live like that.

I would like to believe that I could be that for my Husband, I would stay and endure anything. But I know there are obstacles and challenges that might cause me to re-think my own needs not being met.

Everyone deserves to be happy! This is a very hard situation and I think to each is own. You have to do what s best for you and not be untrue to yourself or your own conscience

[ladylove]

I agree with most of what's said.

Mainly sex is an imperative part of a romantic love relationship. Without it there is a deeper problem to fix, if the problems are not fixable it is my opinion the parties are not compatible and should walk away from an unfulfilling relationship.

The intimacy (sex) two people share is the private world they alone create together from a love, friendship, respect and yes need, is essential. If a tragedy occurs and my partner can no longer have sex I could not walk away, nor would I or could I have sex with someone else just to scratch an itch. I would make it my mission to find that fulfillment with him in another way. I also would like my partner to feel the same way, it's a subject we never talked about before, but will make for interesting conversation.

For better or for worse, that was/is the promise.

[sass]

Everyone deserves to be happy! This is a very hard situation and I think to each is own. You have to do what s best for you and not be untrue to yourself or your own conscience

I could not agree more! I don't think we truly know what we can or can't deal with until we are facing the situation.

[ladylove]

I agree with most of what's said.

Mainly sex is an imperative part of a romantic love relationship. Without it there is a deeper problem to fix, if the problems are not fixable it is my opinion the parties are not compatible and should walk away from an unfulfilling relationship.

The intimacy (sex) two people share is the private world they alone create together from a love, friendship, respect and yes need, is essential. If a tragedy occurs and my partner can no longer have sex I could not walk away, nor would I or could I have sex with someone else just to scratch an itch. I would make it my mission to find that fulfillment with him in another way. I also would like my partner to feel the same way, it's a subject we never talked about before, but will make for interesting conversation.

For better or for worse, that was/is the promise.

I had a discussion with my husband yesterday about this very subject his opinion is as follows:

He said: I'm in my 50's and sex is very important part of our relationship, and will continue to be for as long as I can foresee. However we've been married a long time I don't think I would want to be with someone else even if..... I just wouldn't feel right about it. I don't think I would feel the same if I were 30 and something happened.

[chloegirl]

I agree with this 100%. Looking at it from this end of time I can say that it is alot more important than most people will admit

and that's why it is so important to know and be confident in yourself, your needs and desires early on. If a relationship is

relatively young and it's not fulfulling ALL those needs and the partner just doesn't seem to get it and step up to the plate in

working on it then I think a smart person would be doing themselves a longterm favor by getting out and looking for the partner who will. You owe it to the relationship to TRY and try hard, but quite frankly if you let it go on too long just hoping it will get better, you're wasting your time. Another reason why it is smart not to rush into anything and start bringing children into the mix to complicate matters even more until you are sure of it all.

That being said- once you have lived with it and this person for many years and are relatively content with the other aspects of your life together, (and I don't believe that unfulfilling sex is always a symptom of relationship problems), then it is

much tougher to justify walking away for that reason alone. Alot of people will just learn to live with that lack in their lives,

to never be completely happy or fulfilled but yes that lack will always be there. And some people may reach a point where they feel like they just can not go to their graves without experiencing that kind of heat and passion at least once in their lives. At that point one might walk away completely and another might just be tempted to try that "forbidden fruit" once and can do so without it changing or taking away the love and feelings they have for their spouse (and yes after hearing what so many people have to say I do think that is possible for some people to do, we are all capable of loving in a multitude of ways and one does not necessarily negate another)....of course that is betrayal and would lead to extreme pain if it was discovered....then you would have a whole other conumdrum to deal with....would it be worth it? could you live with the guilt, would you even feel guilty?, etc.. Everyone is different and as much as we all want to get on our high horse and be the "morality police" how dare we try to judge anyone else just because they see and feel differently about a situation than we do? Yes, vows are serious, breaking them is serious, but we are only given one shot here in this lifetime, and like MsLayD's parent's case, I've seen alot of people live their lives sacrificing an important part of their wants and needs and in the end that lack is apparent...you can tell someone who has spent their lives just "existing" and doing the "right" thing and someone who has embraced and revelled in all that life has to offer and yes that means the physical aspect of it too. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT advocating infidelity....I just know that life is not black and white....there is alot of gray matter in between and no one size fits all answer. Maybe in the end abstinence or denial is not the golden ideal, maybe wasting a lifetime without experiencing all the pleasures available to us in physical bodies is the lesser thing to do, kind of like looking a gift horse in the mouth. None of us will know till we play the entire game. Not an easy decision for anyone but right or wrong, in the end you have to do what's right for YOU....

[sun_flower969]

I agree with this 100%. Looking at it from this end of time I can say that it is alot more important than most people will admit

and that's why it is so important to know and be confident in yourself, your needs and desires early on....

HERE HERE Chloe! The whole thing, ditto that!

[crossroads123]

Too Timid has illuminated the many different thoughts and attitudes people have about sex. I know now that there are people who truly can accept "it's only sex" and divorce sex from love and intimacy. I'm not sure whether to admire them or pity them.

In my mind sex, love, intimacy are all too interconnected to accept it. I can, and have, had sex with women I didn't love, but it isn't half the experience of sharing physical intimacy with the woman you adore. It just wouldn't be worth it.

Sunday you and I can agee on this I guess we came out of that area and can't get past that teach, my friend.

My sister is in one of those marriages right now. They would MUCH better of divorcing, but won't.

[HisAngel]

I'm a been there, done that girl.

I was married for 8 years, the last 2 sexless (possibly once or twice in those 2 years)

Its not a clear cut situation.

Our sexlife was never amazing and I can look back now and say honestly that I was never sexually attracted to him. That got worse over time, and I hope that even though I am going to be honest from my POV I hope I dont sound too crushing and bitchy.

I tried lots, really did, toys, books, porn, sexy lingerie but it just didnt work.

I had my eldest a year into our marraige, yes I put on some weight, let myself go. After a few months I sorted myself out and looked (IMO) better than before i pregnant.

I still didnt desire him, never got that feeling of absolute lust, the thoughts of "I need to rip your clothes off and have you right now" so maybe that makes me at fault, but I did try I didnt want my life to be a failure, I faked and lied to myself but it didnt work. So it dwindled, he'd stay up later than me, fall asleep on the sofa, work longer hours and go out more. Part of me was glad, I felt I'd been let off having to try. Then I found out why, he was having an affair.

We tried to recover from it, but I disliked him more, more than visual, inside I thought "you never tried to change, I lost weight, sorted my attitude out, tried to change for us".

We stayed together for a while longer, and had sex for a month while trying to concieve our youngest, as soon as I was pregnant, it may has well been over as we didnt talk, never touched, neither of us tried. I did councilling he wouldnt) all therapy told me was I had to leave. I deserved more and so did he.

My youngest was not quite 2 when I sat him down and said it was over. I just didnt love him and we both should be happy. He never asked to try, so I knew it was the right thing.

We split, I moved out and the weekend after he moved his new girlfriend in.

So guess it was just me with the sexless marraige, not him.

So after all that garble from me I guess you call it quits when you are unhappy and unable to try to carry on. Looking back we werent even friends in those last years there was nothing to stay for.

Now, however, I know how love/life is supposed to feel, and I'm sorry I wasted my time (and my ex's) by being stuck and unhappy.

How long can you stay with no desire or passion?