Members marriageman Posted September 22, 2009 Members Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Here's an article on low sex marriages...though it's from a Christian perspective: http://www.marriagehelper.com/sexless_marriage.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ladylove Posted September 23, 2009 Members Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Here's an article on low sex marriages...though it's from a Christian perspective: http://www.marriagehelper.com/sexless_marriage.phpanything from a non denominational point of view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jhard Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, the thing is, now he is really resenting her and they really don't even talk, none-the-less have a relationship or friendship. I can't say it is unrealistic. IF you loved someone who continually turned you down, I guess eventually you would have enough and just want out. That is where he is now, and I don't blame him one bit.I understand the resentment part well, but for different reasons. He, being a good guy, probably has a big concern about providing a strong family environment for his kids and this is a reason why some guys will not go for a divorce. If he won't go for a divorce, he may as well get a girlfriend of sorts. Personally, I would tell my wife that I will get my sex elsewhere and do my best not to get an STD and she can live with that or not, I really would'nt care anymore. A person can decide for themselves not to have sex, but they can not indefinately expect thier partners to live without it. My wife hates giving oral. A while back she eventually told me I could go and pay for it. Well, I have tucked that little permission slip away and have made use of it on occasion. Does it bother me, sure. I finally figured out that if I left things as they were I would have lived and died without oral sex. I don't think it is worth ending a marraige over, so I just follow her suggestion. She is the big loser here and she does'nt even know it. All of this was after being eaten alive by resentment for a long time. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ladylove Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I understand the resentment part well, but for different reasons. He, being a good guy, probably has a big concern about providing a strong family environment for his kids and this is a reason why some guys will not go for a divorce. If he won't go for a divorce, he may as well get a girlfriend of sorts. Personally, I would tell my wife that I will get my sex elsewhere and do my best not to get an STD and she can live with that or not, I really would'nt care anymore. A person can decide for themselves not to have sex, but they can not indefinately expect thier partners to live without it. My wife hates giving oral. A while back she eventually told me I could go and pay for it. Well, I have tucked that little permission slip away and have made use of it on occasion. Does it bother me, sure. I finally figured out that if I left things as they were I would have lived and died without oral sex. I don't think it is worth ending a marraige over, so I just follow her suggestion. She is the big loser here and she does'nt even know it. All of this was after being eaten alive by resentment for a long time. jDon't you have any guilt or remorse? and over time don't you think going to another will erode your marriage till nothings left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunday Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Don't you have any guilt or remorse? and over time don't you think going to another will erode your marriage till nothings left?She gave him permission - told him to go get it elsewhere - so I don't see a reason for guilt. I doubt that sex is the biggest problem with this marriage so getting it elsewhere isn't going to be the only thing eroding it. Of course the noble, loving thing for him to do would be to accept a sexless marriage, but I don't think the guy should have to go without sex if he doesn't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikayla1 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why is it 'noble' to accept a sexless marriage? I mean, this woman basically said I am not going to give you oral sex, I don't care about your needs, wants or desires - so go elsewhere. What kind of marriage is that? What kind of wife would send her husband out to get oral from someone else? She clearly does not value the relationship that they have for two reasons: 1) she won't even try to give him a fairly acceptable, normal, healthy item in their marital relationship 2) she doesn't care enough about the relationship to not risk losing him to another woman who will give him what he craves.This is not noble, to accept defeat in this manner. I mean, it would be noble or even admirable to stay in a situation where the other spouse was physically unable to have sex. That would be noble. But, to stay in a relationship where one person simply won't is not noble, it is defeatist!I am adamant - absolutely and completely - that a relationship or marriage HAS to have give and take. It HAS to have an understanding of what the other person wants, needs or desires sexually. It HAS to have an honest accounting of what each person wants, needs or desires. Both persons HAVE to put in effort to give to the other person what they want, need or desire. Yes, sometimes there are compromises, sometimes there are adjustments - but to completely give up on sex - that is ludicrious!I understand loving someone and wanting to be with them because of love, children, friendship. What I don't understand and don't care to understand is why you would forgo a basic human need (yes, we need sex) because of your loved ones neglect. It is neglect! Make no mistake, to not even care about your partner's desires and to send them elsewhere is neglect of the relationship.My friend is in his own personal hell over this. He is absolutely torn about what to do. He has kids, he loves his wife, but he can not have a sexless marriage. The counselor told him in front of his wife that he would be justified to leave. He would be justified to tell her he wants out. I am in agreement.I do not take this lightly. I do not think that people who have spouses who rarely give up sex, or who just have a different desire level should leave. I do not think that persons dealing with ED, or other physical issues should leave. I do not think that persons who are dealing with severe hormonal imbalances should leave.I do, however, think that when one partner has made it AMPLY clear that he or she is NOT interested in having sex - period - and won't relent, that the other spouse is completely justified to leave. I do not think that there should be guilt nor remorse from the person who is getting oral on the side. He had permission. She knows; she doesn't care. It is most likely saving his marriage in an odd way because he is getting what he needs outside of the marital bed. Is it right? It is morally objectionable? Well, is it right for her to send him there? Isn't it morally objectionable to refuse your husband intimacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunday Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why is it 'noble' to accept a sexless marriage? I mean, this woman basically said I am not going to give you oral sex, I don't care about your needs, wants or desires - so go elsewhere. I understand your anger and frustration toward the woman. I feel that way about her too. But thinking of it strictly from the man's point of view, I think it is noble to consider family, children, and home ahead of your own needs. I would admire a man who says, "My kids need me more than I need a blow job." It's the man I would want to be.There are three entities here. Him, her, and them. At some point he has to stop thinking about her and them and decide who he is. I'm not going to judge the guy no matter what he does. He's in a tough situation and I feel sorry for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikayla1 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I understand your anger and frustration toward the woman. I feel that way about her too. But thinking of it strictly from the man's point of view, I think it is noble to consider family, children, and home ahead of your own needs. I would admire a man who says, "My kids need me more than I need a blow job." It's the man I would want to be.There are three entities here. Him, her, and them. At some point he has to stop thinking about her and them and decide who he is. I'm not going to judge the guy no matter what he does. He's in a tough situation and I feel sorry for him.Don't misunderstand...I do think people (men or women) who put their families first and put their needs second are noble minded. However, I also think that people who are unhappy in marriage due to lack of intimacy are not doing their children any good. Children can sense tension, they can sense lack of intimacy. The best thing we can do for our children is to love and be loved by our spouse and show them that love.Statistics show when a couple is not intimate, they are stand-offish to each other. This does not set a good example for the children. Conversely, when a couple is intimate and sexual, they have a much more happy relationship with each other, and this shows to the children.So, what is the best course of action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sun_flower969 Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Don't misunderstand...I do think people (men or women) who put their families first and put their needs second are noble minded. However, I also think that people who are unhappy in marriage due to lack of intimacy are not doing their children any good. Children can sense tension, they can sense lack of intimacy. The best thing we can do for our children is to love and be loved by our spouse and show them that love.Statistics show when a couple is not intimate, they are stand-offish to each other. This does not set a good example for the children. Conversely, when a couple is intimate and sexual, they have a much more happy relationship with each other, and this shows to the children.So, what is the best course of action?I agree!!! I had posted an article along with a poll about this earlier this year...Here's the thread!http://forums.tootimid.com/index.php?showtopic=9569&hl=I know what Sunday is trying to say, but in the long run who really wants to martyr themselves and live the rest of their life secretly unhappy? That IMO is just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunday Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I know what Sunday is trying to say, but in the long run who really wants to martyr themselves and live the rest of their life secretly unhappy? That IMO is just awful.An unhappy marriage definitely affects the children. How much it affects them depends on the adults involved. No one wants to martyr themselves and live the rest of their life secretly unhappy. But there is a lot of life left after the kids are out of the house. Is sacrificing a few years of satistfying sex for the sake of your family really martyrdom? I've sacrificed a lot for my kid. I never thought I was being a martyr, I just thought I was being a good parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sun_flower969 Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 An unhappy marriage definitely affects the children. How much it affects them depends on the adults involved. No one wants to martyr themselves and live the rest of their life secretly unhappy. But there is a lot of life left after the kids are out of the house. Is sacrificing a few years of satistfying sex for the sake of your family really martyrdom? I've sacrificed a lot for my kid. I never thought I was being a martyr, I just thought I was being a good parent.Right, there is a difference though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ladylove Posted October 2, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 She gave him permission - told him to go get it elsewhere - so I don't see a reason for guilt. I doubt that sex is the biggest problem with this marriage so getting it elsewhere isn't going to be the only thing eroding it. Of course the noble, loving thing for him to do would be to accept a sexless marriage, but I don't think the guy should have to go without sex if he doesn't want to.I agree it's not the only thing eroding their marriage, but I also think your either in a marriage and uphold the promise until someone decides to walk and end the marriage. In or out make a choice. If she want's loving healthy marriage she'll make love with her husband. If not, could she really love him??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members square Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Maybe I missed something, but it seems we are mixing refusal to do one sexual act (blow jobs) with refusal of any sex at all. I do not see these as equal situations. Apples and oranges. (At least I think so.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ladylove Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Maybe I missed something, but it seems we are mixing refusal to do one sexual act (blow jobs) with refusal of any sex at all. I do not see these as equal situations. Apples and oranges. (At least I think so.)Check out the original post from Mikayla, it has taken a twist towards the end, however I feel it's all interrelated...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CGEM Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Mikayla. Do you know if the wife of your friend has seen this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikayla1 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Mikayla. Do you know if the wife of your friend has seen this thread?I am most sure she wouldn't look at ANYTHING I have to say. As I have said, I have talked to them, I have talked to her. She isn't as much my friend as he is, and personally, I think she resents anything I have to say because of my position on this, and my position with my friend. I will suggest he print it up and take it to her though. You never know when a lightbulb moment may strike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jhard Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 To those who think my marriage is eroding, I just want to say that I think my marriage is actually pretty great. We get along great and I accept that fact that she has her own free will re giving and receiving oral sex (she hates both) and live with the fact that I am extremely passionate and have on occasion received a blowjob elsewhere. And for the record, yes I do feel bad about it. Very likely that I won't do it again, who knows. When I read here about women that blow thier guys while they are sleeping and other women who go out of thier way to be able to deep throat thier guys and then make swallowing motions for thier SO satisfaction, well I just about go nuts. That is the kind of passionate sex life that I have always dreamt of. I have waited a long time, read many books and am about back where I started in terms of oral. I have finally realized that it is not me, it is her. I accept her that way, just as she accepts me with my shortcomings. All of this is part of the ebb and tide that we call love and marriage. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikayla1 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 To those who think my marriage is eroding, I just want to say that I think my marriage is actually pretty great. We get along great and I accept that fact that she has her own free will re giving and receiving oral sex (she hates both) and live with the fact that I am extremely passionate and have on occasion received a blowjob elsewhere. And for the record, yes I do feel bad about it. Very likely that I won't do it again, who knows. When I read here about women that blow thier guys while they are sleeping and other women who go out of thier way to be able to deep throat thier guys and then make swallowing motions for thier SO satisfaction, well I just about go nuts. That is the kind of passionate sex life that I have always dreamt of. I have waited a long time, read many books and am about back where I started in terms of oral. I have finally realized that it is not me, it is her. I accept her that way, just as she accepts me with my shortcomings. All of this is part of the ebb and tide that we call love and marriage. jYou make excellent points. The fact is, no one can decide what is going to be OK or not OK in their marriage but the people IN that marriage. Your situation is not exactly the same as my friend's. His wife plain out REFUSES sex of any kind. No kissing, no touching, no masturbation, no oral, no sex - PERIOD! That is alienation of affection plain and simple (and yes, it is a legal reason for divorce!)Now, do I think that women and men should try to satisfy all reasonable requests in a marriage - YES. Do I think that oral sex is 'par for the course' - YES. Do I think that women who refuse to perform oral sex are selfish - YES. However, that is my opinion - and that is all it really is, an opinion.Now, if you want another opinion, in your case J, you have gone elsewhere to find satisfaction with oral sex. Your wife allows this. I am telling you, in NO uncertain terms, that my HUSBAND would NOT, EVER have permission from me to go get a BJ from anyone else. He is MY husband, and it is MY PLACE to be giving him that pleasure. So, that makes me wonder about your wife's train of thought. I mean, you are obviously in love, you are friends, you have an otherwise great relationship so you say, and yet she is willing to let you go get oral sex elsewhere just to avoid doing it? Doesn't the logic there seem a little odd? - or at least at odds with a healthy relationship? I mean, I understand that one person can not ever totally meet all the desires and needs of another - that is why we have friends and other special relationships that fill in the gaps, so to speak. But we are talking ORAL SEX here in your case (and all sex in my friend's case). Doesn't it follow that in a loving marriage that would just be something you would share? Does she go over and beyond to fullfill your other fantasies?I have changed my mind a bit when it comes to 'cheating' and relationships. Having been cheated on, and a 'cheatee' I used to think that cheating, was cheating, was cheating. Now, after being here for 4 years and hearing about all the marriages that have issues with sex and affection and differences in sex drives, I have a different understanding of why people cheat - or at least think heavily on it. It seems that more and more people are taking finding fullfillment in their lives - and sex lives included - into their own hands when their spouses won't or can't fullfill them. Is this wrong? Is it wrong to go outside the marriage to get these things?I do not think it is black or white anymore - at least not to me. I have seen so many of my friends grossly unhappy because of these types of issues. Is it fair? Is it fair to live unahappily forever because you 'love' or are 'commited' to your spouse? As I said in the beginning of this response, I think it is up to individual people to decide this. No one can walk in your shoes but you - and while people may place judgement on this behavior, at the end of the day it is just you and your wife dealing with it, just as it is my friend and his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CGEM Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 This goes to both J and Mikayla's friend.I feel you. I believe that most of us who have experience of a long term relationship are familiar with this issue, at least to some extent. Whether it is about sex or some other major area in a relationship, I hope you know that drastic changes can happen. If they have happened one way they most definitely can change the other way, too. And it can happen quickly. I just hope that if you find it worth fighting for, you wouldn't lose the faith. My fingers are crossed for you.The thing I have always wondered is: Do people with drastically decreased libido miss the feeling of craving for sex and intimacy? And if so, could that person be somehow reminded of that feeling so that the old flame would fire up again? After all, the craving cannot be initiated by anyone else, can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CGEM Posted October 4, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hi again,As for Mikayla's post on fidelity in a relationship like the one of her friend's...I share your view. One cannot be held a hostage in a serious relationship where large stakes are involved. Love, friendship, togetherness, shared life experiences, good times, bad times, shared friends, finance... Not to mention the children. I have always regarded a relationship as a chair with four legs. It is up to everyone to define what the legs are, but for me, one of them has always been sex and intimacy. The point is, a chair can stand on three legs, too. But should there be a tiny little gust of wind or inbalance, the chair is sure to tip over.When there is a lot to lose, one could find alternative ways to "fix the broken leg". I have self been in a situation where I have very seriously weighed the option of getting my attention from someone else in order to save what is worth saving. Only that time, I finally decided that I can deal with the loss. So I broke up with her.These are not easy issues. And they are not supposed to be. I don't know if cheating is sometimes the only way to remain sane in a relationship. Nor do I know if it's always wrong. But if it comes to weighing the alternative, it surely is a bit tragic. Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bazil323 Posted October 30, 2009 Members Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wow, I am soooo on your side Mikayla. Yeah, I know there are times that I'm just "not into it" but I can't help getting in the mood when hubby looks at my a certain way or starts kissing my neck, whatever. And I almost always end up not regretting it and really enjoying myself. Yes, I've gained quite a bit of weight since we got married, and I do feel self-conscious about it. BUT, hubby loves me and doesn't care. He's just as horny as when we were dating, and I love him and care for him and am aroused by him even though he too has gained a bit of weight. I'm thinking that she has some issues that she's not admitting to. Maybe it's self-consciousness, maybe she just doesn't love him anymore, maybe it's something else entirely. But, it sounds like she's not even trying. There are times that I just go through the motions and pretend to be enjoying myself just to "get it over with" but even then I find that I am as into it as if I had been aroused from the very start. Most of the time, it's just a mindset thing, and once I push myself into sex mode, I'm there. I'm so there. It's not often for me, but maybe it is all the time for her. Maybe she's stressing about what the kids are doing, how they're gonna pay bills, whatever, but she's certainly not thinking about how her husband feels when she rejects him like that. There's give and take in every relationship, and she needs to understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikayla1 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Members Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 UPDATE!!!My friend filed for divorce. His wife is not contesting. She said she loves him, but is not going to change as far as sex goes. The divorce should be quick and fairly painless for them, as far as these things go. My friend is relieved in a way, but sad that she wasn't more open to counseling and at least talking about fixing things. So sad....lack of sex ruined another marriage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelkisses98 Posted November 23, 2009 Members Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 From what you have said, your friend sounds like a great guy and deserves so MUCH better! The fact that she is not contesting, or willing to even try to fix the issues says a lot about her and her "love" for him. Best of luck to your friend. I hope this goes smoothly for him, and he can move on and find someone who truly appreciates him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ladylove Posted November 23, 2009 Members Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I hope the dissolution of their marriage goes smoothly. I also hope your friend heals and moves on to find a rich rewarding life afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hog Posted November 25, 2009 Members Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 A marriage without sex is like a car with no engine, It's useless. SEX is the engine that keeps the marriage alive and without it, it's junk,She LOVES him?? Bullshit!! I don't buy that for one second, there is a need on her part but the woman don't know the meaning of love. She needs to take her No sex ass on down the road even if he has to tow her. Good for him on fileing for divorce I for one wish him the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.