imnosaint

Are You Capable Of Separating Love From Sex?

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I don't know if you'll think of me as being wierd or crazy but I've always believed that human being's are naturally born with their physical wants, needs and curiosities.

My wife and I got married at a very young age, she was 19 and I was 21. We are now 43 and 45. She looks very young for her age. We've been together for 24 years. I was one of only 2 men in her life.

Four years ago, we had a friend who went through a divorce after 15 years of marriage. (also married quite young.)

Both people ended up with younger partners and they both admitted that it was sexual curiosities, deception and unfaithfulness that led to the divorce.

It made me realized the fact that we've been together for 20 years.

My wife has always been faithful, loving, caring and a very supportive as I with her.

This made me bring up the topic of regrets, I asked my wife if she regretted marrying so young and not being able to sexually explore with other men. She answered no and said that she is not wired that way and never even thought about that. I said that to me, I don't think that sexual curiosity of one partner should be a reason to throw all those years of loving each other away. I know I've had my good share of "fun" when I was young but I know that she didn't.

So I told her, if ever she gets the urge to leave me just because she becomes sexually curious, please be honest and let me know. I know she loves me and vice versa. I do love her so much and cannot imagine my life without her. She responded with "I doubt it and I don't think I'm wired that way."

Fast forward to last week. It was a nice evening and we were talking as usual. From out of no where she tells me "Honey, I think I'm ready..." I looked at her quite puzzled. She continued "I'm ready to have sex with someone else out of curiosity" I was caught off guard and asked her what brought this up and with whome? She said it was her training instructor. A 51 year old man who looks 35 and was very well built. I did feel she had some sort of interest in him whenever she would tell me about him. They've known each other for a year. I've always made her aware of the fact that something could develop between them. That if she asks me, he's a threat to our marriage. She always responded with "I don't see him that way and I just want him as a friend."

Well apparently, my wife developed a sexual attraction to him and wanted my permission to act on it. She said she won't if I said no. That she's just being honest with me.

I told her that I've seen that coming and that happened inspite of all the warnings I gave her.

She told me that she loved me very much and that it was only a physical curiosity. Purely sexual.

That she loves so much that that she doesn't think it shoud be a reason for us to go separate way after all this time.

That she's not the type of person who can sleep with just anyone. She has to know them and trust them.

I told her the conditions are very risky, it's not like a one night stand with someone who isn't so close to her.

She insisted it was purely sexual and she cried.

What do I do? Should I believe her that it's purely a physical attraction? Will our marriage survive.

I think I do love her enough to "allow" her to do it. Is it really possible for 2 people to go on loving each other after something like this. I am in no way conservative and do find some sort of erotism in letting her do this but the part of me that loves her is hurting over her rekindled sexual curiosity with this man in particular. Even though she says that there is no way he can take my place in her heart. Do you women think she's being honest about that. I could really and simply just say no but I feel that it may compromise the honesty between us in the future and lead her to cheat on me. Should I let her go ahead and act on it, get it over with and go on with our lives?

We are very happy with each other and have always been even through all the tough times.

I would really appreciate the females point of view here.

Thanks

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Wow! Can of worms is right. The biggest question you have to answer for yourself is how will you feel afterwards. Can you live with that.... will you trust her again.... will you respect her.... will you be angry with yourself or her.... will you want to touch her..... on and on the questioning can go. You need to answer these for yourself regardless of what anyone will say on this forum. That, however won't stop me from giving you my opinion.

It has been said in many articles and studies that men can have sex and remain detached, women have sex and will form an emotion bonds. For me, like your wife, I could never have sex without forming an emotional connection. You are both playing with fire and could get badly burned. Be careful.

Also, you can't forbid someone from doing something, but you could let her know what the ramifications of her actions will be if she goes ahead with it, let her make the choice. Making her think of what and who is most important in her life.

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You already told her that you saw him as a threat to your marriage. I think that she should respect that. If you guys are going to consider sleeping with people outside of your marriage, then you both need to be completely okay with it every single time. This doesn't sound like a good thing to me.

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There is one statement that I have copied-----This statement speaks for itself-------

Your wife said:

"She's not the type of person who can sleep with just anyone. She has to know them and trust them." Your wife is asking your permission to now have sex with someone she has gotten to know over the last year.

I have to answer this----

This is ME----No, this isn't true of all women. Some women can be excited about "JUST SEX" But, for ME--sex doesn't mean anything if there is not some type of "connection". I think there are a lot of women who feel this way too.I have told my husband time and time again that without some type of emotional connection SEX IS MEANINGLESS for me. (His fantasy, is to see me with another man). Yes, in porn movies it's totally different, It's just fucking and it's a huge turn on. But---"Real Life" is nothing like a porn movie.

Your wife has already formed a connection with this man and now feels ready to take that next step. It's a HUGE turn on-----being emotionally connected and thinking about taking the next step. It's being so connected with him that fuels the excitement of sex for her

I know how this feels------I'm guilty of it-- Yes, I've had an affair. Yes, it started out as "just friends" and then it grew. The closer you get to each other-- the more comfortable you feel. For women we need to feel "secure", "wanted", "needed". So, you are fooling yourself if you think this is just about SEX-----

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First I must applaud you both for being this open and honest with each other. If you opt to open your marriage, which is basically what you are talking about and many couples have great marriages that also happen to be open, my suggestion is to lay the ground rules first. There are many things to consider. If she has sex with someone else, will you feel like you should have the chance too? If so, will you let her know with whom and approve or disapprove ahead of time? What about the other people - can they be married or must they be single? Must they know that you and she are married people looking for no-strings-attached sex? What about afterwards - will you want to know "how things went" so to speak or will hearing the intimate details be too much for you? What about her? The list could go on. Just think it through, both of you, and make sure you are on the same page with everything.

Now, for your orginal question. Say what you will but I am proof-positive that a woman can have sex with someone and not fall in love with them. There may be an emotional attachment of sorts, but that doesn't mean it is head-over-heels, ready-to-leave-my-husband kind of love. My opinion is, from what you have said (the great communication you two have, etc.), you have a strong marriage and I think it will take more than a fling of curiousity to mess that up. Continue to be open and honest with each other, and simple sex (even with a degree of emotions involved) should not be enough to ruin 20 years of marriage. Again, just my opinion.

Good luck with whatever happens.

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If in your four-year-ago conversation, she had said she wanted to do a little exploring, what would you reaction have been then?

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Well, I had to read your post several times before I even dared answer.

Where I don't want to sound hypocritical here, there are just some things in a marriage that should stay to oneself. Yes, you should probably have an idea of how many partners your SO has been with, however, numbers really don't matter much, so long as you're honest about if you were careful (or not). Gory details are just not needed. I'm sure, when you brought it up 4 years ago, your wife really WAS absolutely fine with having you as her confidant, lover, and friend. When you bring up "are you happy? Do you regret? Would you like to experiment?" it can bring up A LOT of feelings that never exsisted before. I mean, that's normal.

And if you have discussed it a lot, which many people tend to do when they're worried, concerned, or feeling guilty (like you made her miss out on something by getting married so young, which was also her choice to do/not do), if brought up too many times, or at all, the other "less experienced" spouse can start to really really wonder, "well what if?"

Some women CAN really experience JUST lust with a man, and not feel any (or just a little) connection with her lover. I have. Usually, I've found, that it happens with women that just don't want to be in a real relationship, for whatever reason, at the time.

However, most women don't/can't seperate love from lust. It's how we're "wired" to ensure that we stay with our mates.

There is no set-in-stone answer for you. If she is the type of woman you've portrayed her to be, then, if she does have sex with this trainer, start pushing you away, whether aware or not, out of guilt of what she's done. With permission or not, it would be considered cheating, since marriage is a committed relationship, and, well, I'm sure you remember the "forsaking all others" part of your vows?

YOU can't even asnwer that question. Nobody can. Nobody can say "YES this is EXACTLY how I would react to this scenerio" because saying it, and actually experience it are 2 totally different things.

Anyway, if I were you, I would recommend that she NOT have sex with this man, and that you use her newfound sexual interest to help spice up your sex life with her. I would also recommend that she change trainers, or even better, change gyms all together.

That's my 2 cents.

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Double posting.

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YOU can't even asnwer that question. Nobody can. Nobody can say "YES this is EXACTLY how I would react to this scenerio" because saying it, and actually experience it are 2 totally different things.

Excellent point! She might think she knows how she would feel about it, but until/unless it happens, she can't really know. The same is true for you. You may think you would be OK with her being with another, even if it goes no further, but you don't really know how you will feel. This can go both good and bad, but if you want a concrete answer as to what will happen, it is not possible, as how the two of you will feel and act can't truly be known without it happening. Many couples have open marriages and it works quite well for them with benefits not predicted (that's a topic for another time). But for many more it doesn't work, with consequences not previously thought of. Is that a gamble you are BOTH willing to take? Only you two can answer that.

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WOW! I think you have to seriously examine the possible consequences of this... how will you both feel afterward etc. It could be a wonderful thing... it could be disastrous. Soberly think it through! I know for me, I have a really hard time separating sex and love.. but that's me... :) there are insecurities and jealous feelings deep inside that people don't even know they have until it is facing them! Best of luck to you and keep us posted!

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Thanks for the input everyone.

They have helped me a lot in examining the situation and looking at all that has happened retrospectively.

To answer one of the questions posted (would I have let her do it 4 years ago), yes I would have in a heartbeat.

So it led me to think about how things were and realized that some things have changed this past year.

I gave her my full support when she decided to start seriously working out. (Mind you she looked great then and even better now) She has a body that can put most 20 year olds to shame.

Part of that support was to overlook the fact that the training took a substantial amount of time from us.

Before, when she was done with work, she would come home and enthusiastically prepare dinner so that we, including our daughter could eat together and it served as our connecting time. (It has always been like that ever since we got married). Nowadays, even if I served dinner, she would come home, rush to change clothes and leave to go and train. She says she can't eat before going to training and so she has been eating lightly 3 hours before coming home. When she started training, she used to let me know when she got home and I'd sit with her at the table as she eats her real dinner. Lately she would come home, go straight to the kitchen and eat. I can understand that training is tiring but it's taken away something that I really valued a lot. So technically we don't spend time anymore. She's too tired to even talk afterwards. She jumps into the shower for 20 minutes, and just crashes when her back hits the bed.

So who do you think has been getting the quality time from her when she's fully awake, enthisiastic and not rushing. Her trainer of course. I guess it would have been fine but there were even times when she would stay longer at the gym and they would talk, not just about the training but other things like his plans to open his own gym and his family. She would reciprocate by talking about her life and her plans.

An extra hour or two with just the 2 of them. After which she would come home, rush eating, jump into the shower and sleep. I've been feeling neglected but had just began to admit it now.

I strongly feel she let it happen. Yes, I do believe there is already a bond between them. I am just awed at how I could have let this slip. How this trainer, who I expected to be professional has won my wife's heart without her knowing it. She's a very decent person and I feel he snuck in through the back door of her heart without her consciously knowing it.

We've talked, she cried, I told her how I saw this possibly happening and that was when I mentioned he was a threat to our marriage. She brushed it aside then and said our marriage was too strong to be affected by something like this. I know it's usually the women who complain about things like this so please don't make fun of me. I gave up a lot of things in the past when she complained about the time these things took away from us. Now I'm the one that it's being done to. Is it just sex, I'm not quite sure anymore. Someone mentioned in a post that she may be trying to "seal the deal". I do feel now that there is that possibility. We've talked a lot. I don't think things are ever going to be the same between us. The happiness and contentment between us has disappeared.

I feel that I am too old to handle these emotional stresses which are basically all new to me after all these years.

I still do appreciate all the happiness she has brought to my life but I feel betrayed. Betrayed but not ungrateful.

I'm thinking of leaving. I would rather leave the marriage now while we still care about each other because I do cherish the fond memories and would like to be able to cherish them as the best years of my life.

I don't think I can love anyone as much as I have loved her and so I have completely negated the idea of trying to find someone new. I'm done with that. Unconditional love hurts.

Thanks again everyone and please cherish your significant others. Don't take them for granted even if you have been together for a long time. Never take that joy you bring to each other for granted. Remember the possibility that there is only one person in your lifetime who is meant to give you that.

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I am sooooo sorry for what you are going through and I can't imagine anyone on here would make fun of you. These types of feelings of neglect are felt by many of us at different times.

I would say that you have answered your own orginal question - her seeing this man is not a good thing for your marriage, muchless her having sex with him.

As for where your marriage is heading, talk to her! Talk to her more. Does she know you are feeling so neglected and unhappy that you are thinking of leaving? Perhaps she needs a wake-up call. We can all become complacent, make assumptions about our SO, almost forget that there are two in the relationship. I have seen it before - married for 20 years, together for 25, kids, jobs, daily stressors, one couple starts more-or-less ignoring the other, the other begins feeling hurt and unwanted - the whammo! Things get to the point of a blow-up and the d-word is mentioned - can you say WAKE-UP CALL!

I wish you luck in whatever you do. Keep us posted and stay strong.

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Well, you must do what you feel is right, however, do not do this lightly because your pride may be hurt. You said you would've let her "go outside the marriage 4 yrs ago", and it'd be fine, now you're seeing that it's not such a good thing for your situation

Personal trainers are great! However, keep in mind, that they're always suppose to be positive, supportive, and full of energy. That keeps their clients happy and willing to do more to get the results they want. This man may not be like that outside of the gym.

I really hope that you find the right path for you.

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imnosaint,

Forgive me if I tend to be a little blunt. From what you have posted, I would say you have to a certain extent "made your bed" and now you find yourself having to "lay in it". I can't say how much that matters but suffice it to say that at times any one of us can be our own worse enemy. I am referring to your basically giving her the OK to mess around several years back. Do not take that lightly. As you mentioned, she caught you offgaurd years later when she said "I am ready....." and you did not know off the bat what whe was talking about. Obviously, your words got her mind spinning.....for a long time.

So, now you are knee deep in the stuff. From what you have written, I would say your wife's engine is running on FEELINGS and FEELINGS only. I would think it paramount that your engine run on HISTORY, COMMITMENT, STRENGTH and above all LOVE. You are still her man, don't give up on that before she has given up on it. If you stand there defeated she may well think leaving is the only thing left for her to do. Man, if you care about your marriage and her and want it, don't give in to mister half/century gut sucker. Present to your wife the winning option, you. I understand that you have a child together. In terms of your family situation, you will never find a woman (nor she a man) that is more related to your child! Nor anyone who cares more about the child and is willing to raise it/them.

To a very large degree, we create our own future. Right now your wife is not "herself" and what happens may well depend on how you deal with all this. Maybe good to go to mexico (dodge a few bullets:) ) for a few weeks away from Mr. Ab Washboard and reconnect.

I feel he snuck in through the back door of her heart without her consciously knowing it.

This is exactly what happened. Shut the back door and make the front door more attractive. I do not know if you are a milatary man, but if you can you should have the kind of talk with him that makes him shit his speedos.

j

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imnosaint,

You are hurt and your feeling raw right now. Don't do any thing yo will regret. Aren't you willing to fight for the love of your life? Don't bow out of the dance just yet. Take a stand, go to marriage counseling with your wife and try to work through the hurt and ill feelings. This is a huge bump in your marriage, BUT it doesn't have to mean it's the end. Your choice.... sit back and let it all slip away through you fingers ........... or fight like hell to keep the love of our life.

And Yes your relationship may never be the same again, but maybe it will be better in some ways, stronger for having gone through this hell and coming out the other side together.

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Thank you again, I will take time think really think about it before doing anything.

The reason that I am really hurt and ready to give up is because he/they have managed to wipe away all those years of love, companionship and friendship in our marriage.

I have always believed that these are very important factors in a relationship.

Love, the emotional aspect.

Sex, the physical and fun aspect

Friendship, you are each others best friend. Someone you can share eveything with.

Companionship, the need and the desire to want to be together all the time. The reason we see old people, all wrinkled and crumpled up still holding hands as they walk through the park.

It's looking like there is nothing left with the way I'm beginning to see events unfold.

There seems to be an "affair of the heart" that has been going on. Disguised as their fondness and concern for each other. With that, I feel like her love flew out the window.

The friendship they developed involved my wife developing a trust in another man that made her very comfortable with him. I feel like I lost my status as her best friend. They have been sharing intimate details of their lives with each other, I've had a tired wreck coming home at night for the past 10 to 12 months who crashes as soon as her back hits the bed. Sure she was honest with the sexual curiosity but the fact that she had implied her comfort and trust in him, to me means that I may no longer be her best friend. (as she stated , "I can't just sleep with anyone, I have to know them and trust them".)

The companionship aspect is what bothers me the most. There has been virtually none for the past 10 to 12 months except for that time that we got to talk about the good times and she expressed her being "ready to have sex with someone else". I felt so good when we started having a conversation at first thinking that things were probably going back to what I consider normal, just imagine the size of the anvil that fell on my head and landed on my chest that night when she said that.

They have been spending all the quality time together. She has been staying after training and talking which she describes as "wind down" after the training. Why couldn't she wind down with me and share training experience WITH ME??! I'm also interested in what's been going on and what she has been going through! Why the need to spend an extra hour at the least, sometimes 2 hours until 10 or 11 PM with this guy at the gym or at the parking lot? At the cost of being with me!

That is why thinking back, it's looking like the SEX was to seal the deal! She wouldn't consciously betray me but I feel that she let things progress unconsciuosly and ended up fantasy of running off with this guy and doing things together since they have a lot in common. I'm not stupid, I know that people usually hold back on giving signs of leaving a relationship until the next one is ready to sail right? That way, there is no chance of ending up in the streets until the next foundations are at least solid enough to stand on. It may be her going through midlife crisis. She seems to have become extremely selfish. I dont know anymore.

If you were in my situation, wouldn't you think that there is nothing left to fight for?

I apologize for having such a topic posted on this board. I know that this is suppose to be a fun place to talk about sex. I found the people here very mature and intelligent and that was why I joined the forum in the first place. I used to be fun too.

I just thought I'd use you all as a sounding board. My means of venting my frustration since I feel like I lost my best friend, the only person I could have talked this through with. I do miss her.

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I think you might be catastrophizing somewhat. You're telling yourself that it's the worst-case scenario when you don't fully know what's going on. Do you know for sure that she's in love with him and doesn't want to be with you anymore? You need to talk with her.

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........If you were in my situation, wouldn't you think that there is nothing left to fight for?

.......... I do miss her.

Here's what I see:

~Your hurt

~Your defeated

~Your self-blaming

~Your lost

~Your are depressed (understandably) and so much more......

Depression is anger turned inward....

GET ANGRY! It will fuel your energy to fight to get your life back. If it were me I'd stand up and fight like hell for the life I wanted, You can too. Don't forget you have the advantage of knowing your wife longer and yes better than he does. Date her again, bring her flowers, take her on a romantic getaway, surprise her.... there are so many things you can do to win her back, do something! She wants to know she counts and is the center of your world. And even if this is hard and you want to hide your head, DON'T! Be upbeat, strong, make her remember the man she fell in love with. I'd even go as far as to ask her to find a women trainer so you two can work on your marriage and find your way back.

I'm sure you will feel much better by trying. You have everything to gain! I wish you Good Luck!

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Do you love her? Do you want your marriage to work? If so, talk to her! Take her away for a weekend of reconnecting - or find a sitter and do it at home if you have to. Do something more than assume it is over. Like I said before, I know from personal experience (long story but a few on here will know what I am talking about), sometimes the other person really doesn't know how bad things have gotten until faced with it in terms they can't blow-off or sweep under the rug.

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The old adage is "men cheat because they think they can get away with it, women cheat because they're out of the relationship." Yes, it's sexist, but I think it's true here. I'm sorry, you're losing her.

If you put your heart and your dominant male masculinity into it can you keep her? Yes, but it will never be the same. Sure, you'll have your companion, but so much will be overshadowed by this. It's so hard to comment on a relationship 25 years in the making, but you're asking, so I'm telling. You lost her - 2 options. Have a relatively loveless marriage or divorce and hope for something better. It's so hard, but I'm sorry, she's gone.

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I guess you were all correct.

I got to the bottom of things tonight and the only pun I can come up with is "Why did I have to marry a beautiful and attractive woman.

You folks were right, it seems to be very painfully over. Yes I did lose her.

She admitted having feelings for the bastard and wanting to have sex with him to seal the deal.

I feel like I'm done with life. I've lost my purpose.

I;m trying to sort the anger and remorse. I can't seem to tell them apart rigth now.

I would like to thank everyone for the reality check and support.

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Sorry.

But you will get through this, and things will look up again. A lot of people go through this sort of thing. Not me, not yet anyway, but I know a lot of people who have. Some take it pretty well, considering; others have total breakdowns. But they pick up, they make it through, and life gets good again. You will too, with time. Don't give up.

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Thanks square. This forum reaaly helped me get through this. It's something I couldn't talk to my best friend anymore (my wife) and to be honest, I have forsaken everything for her. That is the main source of my pain. I'll give her a little time to sort her feelings. Maybe she's still in love with me. Who knows. If you want an idea how I feel right now. Go to YouTube and listen to the song by Daine Birch title "Nothing but a miracle". Listen to it with your hearts and you'll understand how I feel right now.I heard it this morning and related to the message, on the dot. I am just so sad! Hopeless and desperate. I've lost the love of my life to anouther man.

Thank you all again.

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I am so sorry things are going the way they are for you. All of us who have had a relationship fail can feel your pain. Please try to stay strong. I know how hard that can be to do, but try. And keep checking in here. The folks on here have seen me through many ups and even more downs and are very good at offering advice no matter the situation.

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Listening to that song now, it's pretty good. But yeah, there's a lot of sadness in front of you, but that's not the only thing for your future. It's impossible to explain to a person in grief that things will get better (I know by experience), but I might as well try. Keep pushing on, keep living, stay strong. Don't lose yourself in this.

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